2016 RAM BLOWN MOTOR 70,000 MILES ENGINE REPLACEMENT

[gofishingup]

I've posted numerous issue on this forum I have had with my 2016 3.0 Bighorn. I bought the truck brand new and everything was fine for the first 45,000 miles, then everything started to go wrong with it. Melted intakes, EGR's, you name it, it's been in the shop numerous times from 45,000 to the current 70,000 miles.

Last night I was driving and heard a light thumping sound and within about 10 seconds it was much louder and the truck shut down. It struck me that it sounded like a bearing had given out on the crankshaft. It had to be towed to the dealership. I just got off the phone with the dealership, the motor is shot and needs to be replaced, Metal in the oil pan. They'll tell me the official diagnosis in the future. They are going to update me when they can have the new motor and have FCA approve the engine replace tomorrow. Everything should be covered by warranty.

I have a couple questions for anyone that has dealt with the engine replacement:

1. I have had a ton of warranty work done on this truck for emission relates item, if I'm right and the crankshaft spun a bearing, is this related to an emissions related item or is it strictly a mechanicical issue due to a design flaw and not related any any way to the poor emissions design with the truck? I see many of the 3.0 engine replacements are related to crankshaft failure but wonder if this relates to the emissions in any way.

2. Will the replacement motor be a brand new 2021 motor, I believe 5th generation or do they have older factory crate motors that they utilize? I'm assuming it's a new motor and not remanufactured.

3. What type of warranty comes with the new replacement motor? Do I get 100,000 miles on the motor or do they deduct the 70,000 on the truck and only give you a 30,000mile on it? I assume the parts covered on the extended 120,000 warranty are covered on this replacement motor as well.

4. Has anyone that has had a replacement motor attempted to have FCA buy back the truck or try to reach some other type of settlement with them? Has anyone went through the arbitration process? I don't care that they are putting a new motor in this truck, no way can I trust this truck any longer.

Any input from those that have dealt with this issue would be greatly appreciated.

 

[Ironcity]

Our 2016 was somewhat similar. Went out at 57,000 miles last March. They replaced ours with a brand new engine under warranty. It was not the latest generation engine. It carries a 3 year, 100,000 mile warranty. I’ve heard rumors though that they are not making new anymore and only replacing with remanufactured. If true, I also don’t know if the warranty terms are different.
Never found out what happened as FCA told the dealer they were not allowed to open the engine.

 

[VernDiesel]

1. Maybe in part. FCA is not saying.
2. NO it will be a the same as you have now only brand new.
3. It used to be the balance of your 100k but I have seen FCA cover beyond that. I have no reason to doubt Ironcity 3yr 100k.
4. Yes. And I believe they were successful. I don't know the specifics or have a link for you.

Have you considered investing in an aftermarket tune? They have them both ways now, some that turn off dirty soot recirculation and one that is goobermint compliant but still far superior to the AEM goobermint/FCA detune. Not saying you do but my suggestion is for people to avoid lugging the motor at low rpm be it with a trailer or not. To lug it puts maximum load on the bearings and at the same time with low rpms is low oil pressure / poor lubrication & cooling ie a bad recipe. Its not easy to lug this motor with the 8 speed but with the stock trans tune under the right condition you can. Some do it lifting to make it shift into 8th while up a grade with or without trailer seeking maximum fuel economy & minimum rpm. Likes straws on the camel's back? Its a bad trade because not only is their wear potential but you don't save any fuel doing it either. At least not according to the instant fuel economy gauge comparing one gear to the other.

Also to frequently run the motor long enough that the oil is at full operating temp a sufficient amount of time to evaporate the condensation & diesel that gets in the oil. These seem to have worked for me with 415,000 on my replacement motor and for James with 444,000 on his truck. No single cause has been identified as culprit for the bearing failures but there are pictures on YouTube of engine with sooty unburnt diesel solids that clogged the oil passages and starved the bearings in that motor. Why not try to eliminate this one.

Some have the philosophy of being proactive to avert potential problems and work towards long trouble free operation. Others worry about protecting warranty and hope the motor expires before the warranty does.

Here are some links you can peruse.

Diesel Tuning for Performance and Fuel economy

GDE offers diesel ECM engine tuning products to improve fuel economy and performance. We specialize on ecodiesel, duramax and powerstroke

greendieselengineering.com

Dodge Cummins & Eco Diesel - Eco Diesel Dodge Ram 1500 3.0L 2014-2019

Class-Exclusive 3.0L EcoDiesel V6 delivers 240 horsepower and 420 lb-ft of torque at 2,000 rpm. The 3.0L EcoDiesel engine also delivers Best-in-Class fuel economy as efficient as 8.0 L/100 km (35 mpg)

hddieselsupply.ca

RAM JEEP EcoDiesel

- The FIRST to offer 14-18 RAM 1500/JEEP Grand Cherokee EcoDiesel ECU & Transmission Tune via OBD2 flash! - Overall avg is 5-10MPG INCREASE! Yes, this is factual! -Pre-order NOW! Only $250 down gets you OBD2 ECU and transmission devices that YOU KEEP

www.sofakingtuned.com

Jeep / Dodge Ram 1500 3.0L V6 Ecodiesel (2014 - 2018)

Optimisation and performance for Jeep / Dodge Ram 1500 3.0L V6 Ecodiesel (2014 @ 2018)

mrtuning.ca

Do you own a Dodge Ram? Gain up to 25% of power!

ECU Remapping for Dodge Ram 3.0 EcoDiesel 240 bhp. Gain 25% power with a Stage 2 diesel Tuning. Chip Tuning options available, DPF<br>removal, EGR<br>Removal, Speed limit<br>removal.

www.celtictuning.co.uk

 

[CAVEMANN]

1. Maybe in part. FCA is not saying.
2. NO it will be a the same as you have now only brand new.
3. It used to be the balance of your 100k but I have seen FCA cover beyond that. I have no reason to doubt Ironcity 3yr 100k.
4. Yes. And I believe they were successful. I don't know the specifics or have a link for you.

Have you considered investing in an aftermarket tune? They have them both ways now, some that turn off dirty soot recirculation and one that is goobermint compliant but still far superior to the AEM goobermint/FCA detune. Not saying you do but my suggestion is for people to avoid lugging the motor at low rpm be it with a trailer or not. To lug it puts maximum load on the bearings and at the same time with low rpms is low oil pressure / poor lubrication & cooling ie a bad recipe. Its not easy to lug this motor with the 8 speed but with the stock trans tune under the right condition you can. Some do it lifting to make it shift into 8th while up a grade with or without trailer seeking maximum fuel economy & minimum rpm. Likes straws on the camel's back? Its a bad trade because not only is their wear potential but you don't save any fuel doing it either. At least not according to the instant fuel economy gauge comparing one gear to the other.

Also to frequently run the motor long enough that the oil is at full operating temp a sufficient amount of time to evaporate the condensation & diesel that gets in the oil. These seem to have worked for me with 415,000 on my replacement motor and for James with 444,000 on his truck. No single cause has been identified as culprit for the bearing failures but there are pictures on YouTube of engine with sooty unburnt diesel solids that clogged the oil passages and starved the bearings in that motor. Why not try to eliminate this one.

Some have the philosophy of being proactive to avert potential problems and work towards long trouble free operation. Others worry about protecting warranty and hope the motor expires before the warranty does.

Here are some links you can peruse.

Diesel Tuning for Performance and Fuel economy

GDE offers diesel ECM engine tuning products to improve fuel economy and performance. We specialize on ecodiesel, duramax and powerstroke

greendieselengineering.com

Dodge Cummins & Eco Diesel - Eco Diesel Dodge Ram 1500 3.0L 2014-2019

Class-Exclusive 3.0L EcoDiesel V6 delivers 240 horsepower and 420 lb-ft of torque at 2,000 rpm. The 3.0L EcoDiesel engine also delivers Best-in-Class fuel economy as efficient as 8.0 L/100 km (35 mpg)

hddieselsupply.ca

RAM JEEP EcoDiesel

- The FIRST to offer 14-18 RAM 1500/JEEP Grand Cherokee EcoDiesel ECU & Transmission Tune via OBD2 flash! - Overall avg is 5-10MPG INCREASE! Yes, this is factual! -Pre-order NOW! Only $250 down gets you OBD2 ECU and transmission devices that YOU KEEP

www.sofakingtuned.com

Jeep / Dodge Ram 1500 3.0L V6 Ecodiesel (2014 - 2018)

Optimisation and performance for Jeep / Dodge Ram 1500 3.0L V6 Ecodiesel (2014 @ 2018)

mrtuning.ca

Do you own a Dodge Ram? Gain up to 25% of power!

ECU Remapping for Dodge Ram 3.0 EcoDiesel 240 bhp. Gain 25% power with a Stage 2 diesel Tuning. Chip Tuning options available, DPF<br>removal, EGR<br>Removal, Speed limit<br>removal.

www.celtictuning.co.uk

I've seen numerous folks complaining about the transmission not holding 8th gear going up a hill, I guess they want to try to maintain fuel economy, IMO there's NOTHING worse than lugging, if it downshifts, great, if it's hunting between 6th, 7th & 8th, drop it to 6th etc. It's a lot better for the engine AND transmission.

 

[gofishingup]

I know the simple answer is to do an aftermarket tune. The problem is that I am an attorney and read the fine print of all contracts. In the fine print of your purchase agreement which you sign, is a provision which you agreed to that says if you alter the vehicle's emission system, the warranty is "voidable". Voidable means FCA does not need to honor the warranty if you do anything to alter the emission system. This would include adding a tuner to make the truck run different than when it left the factory with the factory installed emission system.

I talked to FCA legal affairs department and they did confirm that it's FCA position that the tuner makes the warranty voidable.

So there's the dilemma, you have a $50,000 truck that you need to tune to make it run correctly, but once you do, you probably voided your warranty. In my case, if the engine failure was crankshaft related and I had tuned the motor, the tuner would not likely have prevented the crankshaft failure, but I can pretty much assure FCA would have not paid for the motor replacement and I would have had to sue them. In my case, I avoided a lot of headaches by not tuning the motor as far as FCA not raising any issues and paying for the motor replacement under the existing warranty. The tradeoff, a truck that runs terrible and is choked up by soot.

Thanks for your input. I'll keep everyone posted. I'm going to file for arbitration and see if I can get FCA to do a buyback. If that doesn't;t resolve the issue, I may have too file a lawsuit. Even with a new motor, I have no faith in the 3.0 eco diesel. My original motor was great for the first 45,000 miles, but then everything went south and it was one issue after another.

 

[805JARHEAD]

Unfortunately you're one of many RAM Ecodiesel owners who've had this same problem. Personally, just 3 weeks ago. My 3rd engine failed. It looks like they're going to put a 4th.
I own a 2016 Ecodiesel 4x4 Big Horn. Always taken it to the dealer for maintenance and never drove it rough and rarely towed.
1st engine went out at 55,747 miles.
2nd engine went out at 112,482 miles.
3rd engine went out at 144,806 miles
Ever since the 1st engine failure. I've tried to have them buy it back with FCA refusing everytime.
After the 1st one. I knew the sound you described and knew the engine was about to fail so I started recording it in my phone. Now I have 2 video documentation on 2 separate failures. Let's see them try to explain this one. I've had a lawyer involved now because they don't listen to the little guy, so now I have to take them to court.
To answer your questions.
1. I'm not a mechanic, so I don't know if the emissions had anything to do with it. I had engine failures before and after it was done.
2. It's more than likely a new Gen 1 engine, but I also read that they don't make them anymore. Don't know how that's going to work.
3. In my experiences, they honored the warranty past the original 100k.
4. Good luck having them buy it back. I'm still fighting.
Best to get rid of it if you can. IMO.

 

[VernDiesel]

Your welcome. I think owners deserve to get both options and they can decide for themselves. Never a question if FCA can choose to attempt to void warranty with a tune. Although now with an EPA compliant tune that retains all factory safeties it might be a hard sell for FCA to the judge. You are in the 2nd camp; "Others worry about protecting warranty and hope the motor expires before the warranty does." Nothing wrong with that and now with a 3 year 100k warranty with no driving habits or duty cycle change I think its reasonable that you could get it to fail within the 3 years based on you only putting 25k on it. Good thing FCA warranties these for 100k instead of the standard 60k that you get with a gas motor as at 70k you would have missed it. Best of luck to you.


Jarhead "never drove it rough and rarely towed." Based on your use, history, and probable AEM detune. I think you are right. Once you get the truck back with fresh motor you should let it go trade it off and get rid of it. Best to also and thanks for your service.

 

[TC Diesel]

In my 40 Year Career Thier have only 2 Engines that needed to decommission AECDs to protect the Motor, the 6.0 Ford and 3.0 VM. Thier 100 of thousands of decommissioned vehicles for emission related failures. BIG difference.

Now to the decommissioned facts, I been posting this for Years long before Fiat put the VM 3.0 in Ram 1500.

Factory warranty Voided emissions



Maybe I can clear this UP, GM All makers Must meet the certification REQUIRED by Federal Law. The instant YOU delete / defeat ON/OFF road use (The only exception to this law is Race or off road competition) GM or your Dealer cannot (legally) even repair the Vehicle if it has State Plates.

Enforcement is the issue, Many times action is NOT taken when the warranty is voided, This is the parties involved discretion, MAKE NO mistake YOUR warranty is voided the instant you make defeat or delete steps to any component that’s needed to meet the certification.

Enforcement is the major part of any Law, if No enforcement then it’s a statement, if the parties involved decided to enforce the law it is now binding and absolute.



Your warranty cannot be Voided on all component's that have NO bridge or connection, Example NEW radio cannot void suspension components, but it sure can void ALL electronic communications. Enforcement is the key Part of any law or warranty. When disagreements arise, they are generally decided by arbitration or Judge.

This statement is 10+ Years old.

 

[gofishingup]

TC Diesel:

Thanks for the reply. In your opinion, if I'm correct and this is related to crankshaft failure is that in any way related to an emission issue or is that a totally separate issue? It would naturally seem they should not be related in any way, but if the engine has issues with emissions that could cause the motor to work harder and thus a possible crankshaft issue. If so, two major issues with motor, one dealing with all the emission issues and the other with bearings and crankshaft. I haven't seen anyone really give an opinion of the two are related in any way so I would be interested in your opinion. Thanks.

 

[gofishingup]

Unfortunately you're one of many RAM Ecodiesel owners who've had this same problem. Personally, just 3 weeks ago. My 3rd engine failed. It looks like they're going to put a 4th.
I own a 2016 Ecodiesel 4x4 Big Horn. Always taken it to the dealer for maintenance and never drove it rough and rarely towed.
1st engine went out at 55,747 miles.
2nd engine went out at 112,482 miles.
3rd engine went out at 144,806 miles
Ever since the 1st engine failure. I've tried to have them buy it back with FCA refusing everytime.
After the 1st one. I knew the sound you described and knew the engine was about to fail so I started recording it in my phone. Now I have 2 video documentation on 2 separate failures. Let's see them try to explain this one. I've had a lawyer involved now because they don't listen to the little guy, so now I have to take them to court.
To answer your questions.
1. I'm not a mechanic, so I don't know if the emissions had anything to do with it. I had engine failures before and after it was done.
2. It's more than likely a new Gen 1 engine, but I also read that they don't make them anymore. Don't know how that's going to work.
3. In my experiences, they honored the warranty past the original 100k.
4. Good luck having them buy it back. I'm still fighting.
Best to get rid of it if you can. IMO.

Did you first go the arbitration route? My contract says I have two options available for arbitration, one with 3 people including a member from the general public and the other where it is just an arbitrator. I'm getting rid of the truck but want to see if I can get them to buy back the truck. The resale is low because of all the problems so on a trade in or out right sale it's going to be a 50-60% loss.

If arbitration is not successful, you can sue under the lemon law. I'm in Michigan, where all the car companies are located, so naturally, we don't have real good lemon laws for buyers as the car companies lobbied the legislature to make Michigan lemon laws weak. If I get any additional info on arbitration/lemon law, I'll pass it on to you.

 

[TC Diesel]

The Rotating Mass failures (early) are related to QC, IMO the one's at 80K+ miles and later are related to Oil soot problems, Thier are 100+ of owners stating that the engine puke's shortly after lube service, This indicates some type of blockage that let's go and plugged lube journal(s)

IMO if you own any year VM3.0 OAs (Trends) are mandatory.

I know that OAs have shown the Lube soot/ Insolable's to be OK But, My thought is it builds up in the passages and lets go and plugs. Its a sooty motor even at Idle. The fire's and Valve / Turbo failures are relate to Emissions component's.

 

[TC Diesel]

I've Arbitrated Many Insurance and MFG cases , IMO I would go with the single with both parties mutual agreement on the person or the wheel.

Over the years panel decisions Suck, generally favor emotional side of the matter. Gofish You agree?

 

[gofishingup]

I would agree. Better to put together a good presentation and have to convince one person rather than 3. If you're defending the matter, you probably want to go with three rather than one. Three are more likely to compromise rather than one.

 

[uga40]

1. Maybe in part. FCA is not saying.
2. NO it will be a the same as you have now only brand new.
3. It used to be the balance of your 100k but I have seen FCA cover beyond that. I have no reason to doubt Ironcity 3yr 100k.
4. Yes. And I believe they were successful. I don't know the specifics or have a link for you.

Have you considered investing in an aftermarket tune? They have them both ways now, some that turn off dirty soot recirculation and one that is goobermint compliant but still far superior to the AEM goobermint/FCA detune. Not saying you do but my suggestion is for people to avoid lugging the motor at low rpm be it with a trailer or not. To lug it puts maximum load on the bearings and at the same time with low rpms is low oil pressure / poor lubrication & cooling ie a bad recipe. Its not easy to lug this motor with the 8 speed but with the stock trans tune under the right condition you can. Some do it lifting to make it shift into 8th while up a grade with or without trailer seeking maximum fuel economy & minimum rpm. Likes straws on the camel's back? Its a bad trade because not only is their wear potential but you don't save any fuel doing it either. At least not according to the instant fuel economy gauge comparing one gear to the other.

Also to frequently run the motor long enough that the oil is at full operating temp a sufficient amount of time to evaporate the condensation & diesel that gets in the oil. These seem to have worked for me with 415,000 on my replacement motor and for James with 444,000 on his truck. No single cause has been identified as culprit for the bearing failures but there are pictures on YouTube of engine with sooty unburnt diesel solids that clogged the oil passages and starved the bearings in that motor. Why not try to eliminate this one.

Some have the philosophy of being proactive to avert potential problems and work towards long trouble free operation. Others worry about protecting warranty and hope the motor expires before the warranty does.

Here are some links you can peruse.

Diesel Tuning for Performance and Fuel economy

GDE offers diesel ECM engine tuning products to improve fuel economy and performance. We specialize on ecodiesel, duramax and powerstroke

greendieselengineering.com

Dodge Cummins & Eco Diesel - Eco Diesel Dodge Ram 1500 3.0L 2014-2019

Class-Exclusive 3.0L EcoDiesel V6 delivers 240 horsepower and 420 lb-ft of torque at 2,000 rpm. The 3.0L EcoDiesel engine also delivers Best-in-Class fuel economy as efficient as 8.0 L/100 km (35 mpg)

hddieselsupply.ca

RAM JEEP EcoDiesel

- The FIRST to offer 14-18 RAM 1500/JEEP Grand Cherokee EcoDiesel ECU & Transmission Tune via OBD2 flash! - Overall avg is 5-10MPG INCREASE! Yes, this is factual! -Pre-order NOW! Only $250 down gets you OBD2 ECU and transmission devices that YOU KEEP

www.sofakingtuned.com

Jeep / Dodge Ram 1500 3.0L V6 Ecodiesel (2014 - 2018)

Optimisation and performance for Jeep / Dodge Ram 1500 3.0L V6 Ecodiesel (2014 @ 2018)

mrtuning.ca

Do you own a Dodge Ram? Gain up to 25% of power!

ECU Remapping for Dodge Ram 3.0 EcoDiesel 240 bhp. Gain 25% power with a Stage 2 diesel Tuning. Chip Tuning options available, DPF<br>removal, EGR<br>Removal, Speed limit<br>removal.

www.celtictuning.co.uk

What is meant by lugging? And how to you do it with an automatic transmission?

 

[CAVEMANN]

LUGGING occurs when a vehicle can no longer gain or pick-up speed in any situation, it's hard to achieve with an automatic transmission, I've seen and talked with numerous people who will try to force the transmission to hold a higher gear. I've seen people allow the transmission to "hunt" for the correct gear, automatically shifting between 7th & 8th, if it WON'T hold the higher gear then you should downshift a gear or two, "hunting" isn't good for the the transmission and IMO or the enging, I think the engine will achieve a lugging situation , even if only for a very short time.

 

[VernDiesel]

You can't get a real pronounced shutter or lugging with the 8 speed and or for very long. But if its in a taller gear usually 8th going up say a minimal grade or into some head wind with or without a trailer it can certainly load the motor IE bearings on the verge of being noticeably lugged (felt or heard) before the transmission ECU forces a downshift. Some especially with trailer will lift the throttle to get it to shift then ease back on the throttle trying to keep it in 8th thinking it will help attain best fuel economy and that its best to keep rpms low for longevity.

In this case its overkill does not help economy and loads the crank/bearings. This is at a time when oil pressure / lubrication which is largely rpm related is low. Some say there is possible crank harmonics that can happen at a certain rpm / load which may be around this point which causes, I don't know the proper term I will say crank squirm for a second where the crank can grab a bearing especially if the bearing is worn and not being well oiled. No mechanical engineer here this is the best I know how to describe it. I think typically this would have to be a repeated scenario that eventually turns into the straw that broke the camel's back. Can I prove this is causing all the bearing failures. Certainly not.

I don't think this is generally something most people have to work around. But it might be something some people's driving habits combined with local terrain or common scenario for them and or some transmissions tuning that helps to create & repeat this not realising they are trying to step on a possible weak spot. Certainly we can normally easily operate our truck in a manner that does not pose this potential risk. 415,000 on this motor so far plus 371k on the last before it pushed a head gasket. This idea of avoiding lug at minimum hasn't shown to work against me. But mine spends much of its time plodding along at 2,100 rpms comfortably towing a TT.

 

[DeadlyStrike]

I have just gone through the situation for my Ecodiesel a month ago. I was at 77,000 miles when the engine went out on me and was stranded on the highway. I have never towed anything with the vehicle and the engine has never been under stress. The engine was covered under warranty for the powertrain. For my situation, I received a new long block 2020 version built on March 23 not remanufactured. I was told it had all the upgrades that plague the older versions. I was told that I have a 2-year warranty on the brand new engine.

 

[VernDiesel]

Glad FCA took care of you. I have heard both 2 & 3 years unlimited mileage warranty not sure which is correct. Mine puts in serious travel trailer towing mileage weekly. The longer full operating temps seem to do best for the motor and emissions systems.

 

[gofishingup]

I heard back from the dealership today on my motor. They will be replacing my 3.0 this week. They said you have what is remaining on your current engine warranty and that FCA does not give any further warranty on a replaced motor. Since I have 70,000 miles on my motor, they said I'll have a 30,000 mile warranty on the replaced engine. This does not sound right based on what others are saying. I'll contact FCA to get the final answer. Does anyone else have a different opinion on what warranty applies when they replace the motor? Thanks for any replies.

 

[VernDiesel]

Probably the difference between if FCA is paying for the new motor or whether you are buying the new motor.