90k Mile Now Need a New Engine

[Hold96]

I am new to this forum and have joined due to a current issue with my 2015 Ecodiesel with 90k miles. On 8/21/2020 while driving home on 45 mph streets when I experienced a loud tapping on the driver side engine compartment, loss of power and violent engine shaking. I rolled off the road and while the engine was struggling to idle I could hear the loud tapping coming from the valve cover/head area. The engine then stopped. Had the truck towed to the dealer where they told me it suffered a catastrophic event and will need to be replaced. I asked for a more formal root cause and they said they would need me to agree to a $1500 teardown and evaluation. I did not agree right away since I thought that doing a simple compression test would tell if it was a single cylinder failure or multiple failure which would lead me to believe that the cam shaft/timing had shifted. They would not budge. I spoke with a RAM representative on their customer care line and after reviewing my service history (which is minimal since I do all my own oil and filter changes) they agreed to pay for half of the $11,800 quoted. The truck is 5 months outside of the 5 year 100k miles. I agreed to the $1500 but would not fully accept their offer till a proper investigation was completed. Currently I am waiting for the dealer to teardown the engine and then call me so I can inspect the parts with them.
I have read up on expected Ecodiesel engine failure causes and am preparing myself to inspect all the parts. I am a 35 year Aerospace Engineer with an extensive history into root cause analysis and am curious to see what the cause was and what RAM will do once I give them my own detailed report.
I would appreciate any information you guys who may have experienced this such as what you were able to get from the manufacture, anyone who has litigated any cases and mechanical details I should specifically look for. I will share with all of you my experience.

 

[Texascherokee]

Is your truck not covered under the EcoDiesel Settlement? 2014 year models had a issue with Cam bolt coming loose and Cam shifting timing

 

[Hold96]

The vehicle is applicable to the settlement which is in relation to Recall V08. On August 11th I put the car in the dealer to perform 5 recalls and this recall was unable to be performed due to availability of parts. The parts are on order and the dealer is supposed to schedule the service when the parts come in. I am suspecting the cam shift based on the sequence of tapping sounds (3 cylinders hitting valves). I will be able to inspect the valves and pistons once the dealer disassembles the engine. I expect this week to do the inspection.

 

[Texascherokee]

You still didn't answer the question have to filed for the EcoDiesel Settlement?

 

[GearHead]

The V08 recall includes an additional engine, emission, drive train warranty.

 

[Hold96]

I have not filed for the settlement since the recall has not been physically performed yet. Speaking with the RAM rep and the dealer shop manager they said that the recall settlement warranty coverage is for emission items that is why it does not look to be applicable. Still to early on the failure root cause.

 

[GearHead]

I have not filed for the settlement since the recall has not been physically performed yet. Speaking with the RAM rep and the dealer shop manager they said that the recall settlement warranty coverage is for emission items that is why it does not look to be applicable. Still to early on the failure root cause.

I share your desire to see root cause, but according to my V08 recall paperwork in front of me, this Authorized Emission Modification entails a ECM program download only. The extended warranty, additional 4 years/40K miles includes, among other items, Cylinder Head Assembly, including valves, springs, valve spring keepers, valve seats, cam bearing caps, and manifold studs. It does exclude the camshaft and components so that would go to root cause, did we have a shift in the cam gear or did one of the covered systems fail first. The warranty covers all diagnostic charges whether caused by a covered system or a non covered system.

Good Luck.

 

[TC Diesel]

GearHead Hold96 will likely need that luck, Hold96 You will need to oversee the entire Teardown, I would also do unexpected visits if possible...IMO you should just take the offer and move on.

Hold96 you are probably 1 of over 10,000+ failures and climbing.

 

[Hold96]

Thanks for the feedback. The truck is going on the lift today and should be ready for inspection soon. I will stop by unexpectedly so I can try and keep tabs on the teardown.

 

[Texascherokee]

I just got a letter from FCA for a new AEM update When will this madness end?

 

[JohnG]

I am new to this forum and have joined due to a current issue with my 2015 Ecodiesel with 90k miles. On 8/21/2020 while driving home on 45 mph streets when I experienced a loud tapping on the driver side engine compartment, loss of power and violent engine shaking. I rolled off the road and while the engine was struggling to idle I could hear the loud tapping coming from the valve cover/head area. The engine then stopped. Had the truck towed to the dealer where they told me it suffered a catastrophic event and will need to be replaced. I asked for a more formal root cause and they said they would need me to agree to a $1500 teardown and evaluation. I did not agree right away since I thought that doing a simple compression test would tell if it was a single cylinder failure or multiple failure which would lead me to believe that the cam shaft/timing had shifted. They would not budge. I spoke with a RAM representative on their customer care line and after reviewing my service history (which is minimal since I do all my own oil and filter changes) they agreed to pay for half of the $11,800 quoted. The truck is 5 months outside of the 5 year 100k miles. I agreed to the $1500 but would not fully accept their offer till a proper investigation was completed. Currently I am waiting for the dealer to teardown the engine and then call me so I can inspect the parts with them.
I have read up on expected Ecodiesel engine failure causes and am preparing myself to inspect all the parts. I am a 35 year Aerospace Engineer with an extensive history into root cause analysis and am curious to see what the cause was and what RAM will do once I give them my own detailed report.
I would appreciate any information you guys who may have experienced this such as what you were able to get from the manufacture, anyone who has litigated any cases and mechanical details I should specifically look for. I will share with all of you my experience.

can you share the RAM representative contact

 

[Hold96]

can you share the RAM representative contact

The Ram Customer Care number I was given was 844-378-0573. They will assign a rep and a contact once you are given a claim number.

 

[Hold96]

Dear Ram Ecodiesel community,
Here is the current update on my situation.
The vehicle sat in the dealer for over a week while I was ttrying to get Ram to acknowledge and cover the proposed work (at the time estimated to be $11,800). The dealer was currently requesting an authorization for $1500 to formally remove the engine and determine what the failure is. In order to keep this process moving I approved it since it was explained that the $1500 would be covered under the final bill. The next day the truck was put on a lift where they removed the cab and extracted engine from the frame.
The Ram Customer Care advised me that the preliminary offer at that time was for them to cover 50% of the repairs but the final decision was based on a more formal evaluation which if I was negligent that they would not cover it. I added that if it was not my fault and was found to be related to a manufacture defect then they would need to cover 100%.

I had requested that once the engine was removed that I would be allowed to inspect the engine so I could perform my own investigation. They complied and I was able to inspect the engine which was mounted to an engine stand, rotated upside down and the oil pan and additional items removed to the point where the crankshaft, connecting rods and time chain sprockets were accessible. What was found was the connecting rod bearing (sleeve) on piston #2 was worn through at the bottom end stroke to the point of metal to metal contact of the connecting rod cap and crankshaft. The tapping sound I heard was the spacing that was created from the worn down bearing.
The oil was in perfect condition, oil level was correct, no signs of sludge, burn smell or contamination. There was a small pocket of metal debris in the bottom of the pan. I had the dealer remove the next associated connecting rod cap so I could inspect it's condition. The connecting rod end cap from cylinder #3 was removed and the connecting rod bearing was in perfect condition along with no other abnormal wear was found in the engine. In fact the dealer mechanic said this engine was in pristine condition and that this failure had been seen before. The dealer assistant manager indicated that they had gotten very good at switching engines since this was almost a regular event.
From my on-site visit on two occasions at the dealership I generated the attached formal root cause analysis. The final cause of failure was found to be a manufactures defect. My investigation found that during the engine manufacturing at VM Mototori there is a process of selecting a specific connecting rod bearing which will give the exact spacing needed so the oil being distributed through the crankshaft can flow and create a thin layer of rotating lubrication. The standard selection is yellow, green and blue. Both of the connecting rod bearings I inspected showed yellow. The failure that occurred on piston #2 was that during assembly the selected bearing was not correct and in fact did not have the correct spacing causing a slight lubrication starvation. Over the course of the 90k miles it eventually wore down the coating on the bearing until the metal on the bearing was making contact with the crankshaft and from that point was an immediate hard failure since the metal to metal worn down very quickly. Another possibility was that the crankshaft lubrication port was not clear and could cause a lack of oil thus wearing down the bearing. This port verification could not be checked since the dealer was not authorized to dismantle the engine any further. This cause was not considered to be a solid possibility since no other bearings where affected.

The engine (Ecodiesel Gen 3) was replaced within a few days and then sat on the lot for over a week while I was waiting for a final decision from Ram. The dealer said that the standing offer of 50% was still good and wanted me to pay the $7,929.54 bill ($15,859.08). I had to pay the bill in order to stop the weekly cost of the rental car which was at $800. I picked up the truck which ran great because the dealer did a good job on the engine replacement. The dealer disclosed that they had a lot of practice doing this repair. I did eventually get a response from Ram Customer Care where their final ruling was that the 50% coverage was the best they would do. The rep did say that I could continue my cause but would need to write a letter to Ram Customer Care. I have submitted it and am pending a response. One day after picking up the truck I sent an email to the dealer service manager and the Ram representative indicating that I was appreciate of their efforts and professionalism and that my next actions were not going to be a reflection on them, only my disappointment of Ram not taking more responsibility in this matter. I am currently disputing the charges through the credit card company and have submitted in writing to Ram disputing this unacceptable response and accountability.
Through this process I have learned a lot, have had the opportunity to meet some sincere people and am continuing my fight to get Ram to admit to their engine manufacture short comings. What many of them did not know until later is I am a 35 year Aerospace Engineer with an extensive history in failure analysis. My information is factual, justifiable and will be shared throughout the Ecodiesel community so consumer's can be aware of the systemic problems plaguing this high potential engine and manufacture.

If I cannot improve the cost differential of this event I will be seeking litigation and possibly a class action law suit so I encourage other who may have been effected to get the facts and communicate to this thread. The key is to take pictures and be engaged with the dealer. You have every right to inspect the failures and have the dealer point out the failures.

 

[TC Diesel]

Awesome Hold96, Early in 2015 I removed My engine and found over and undersized Spec's , I contacted My sources and found they (Fiat) had sizes I needed to correct the defect Hmmmmm. I posted My findings at 1500diesel.xxx rated. Only paper work I have is the ticket for the bearings.

Thanks again, this confirms that every 3.0VM powerplant has the potential of Rod and Main Bearing failure. If you want to risk this, its now factual your 3.0VM will need visual inspection to confirm its spec correctly.

If I thought this was going to be such a huge dismal failure (back in 2015) I would have documented My engine better.

Hold96, Did the dealer inspect the rotating mass and check for this? if not your replacement May have the same defect, Replacements in 2019 have failed.

 

[Hold96]

The dealer is mostly a parts changer they don’t really go into the engine. This is a Gen 3 engine and should have all of the issues corrected including the last two recalls.

 

[TC Diesel]

IMO, its NO 3 Gen engine their all the same 2014-19 its title only 3 Gen, the minor changes made are word only.

 

[1shadowsabre]

Maybe another compelling reason for consistent Oil Analysis!

 

[Camel]

Maybe another compelling reason for consistent Oil Analysis!

This is exactly why I have my oil analyzed every oil change.

 

[NPV]

I just got a letter from FCA for a new AEM update When will this madness end?

I had this done. Doesn't appear to make anything better, or worse. The only thing that helps my regen problems when pulling a trailer is making sure that I allow the regen process to finish every time. I use a Blue Driver to watch and manage the process. Last time I pulled the trailer (Airstream travel trailer) the engine was in regen about every 45 miles. Highway included. Dealer won't do anything until it fails.

 

[Texascherokee]

I've got Blue Driver and like it, great to check details on your cell phone