Broken Bolts on exhaust/DEF injector failure

[Pekozip93]

Hey Folks
Take a look at this pic, those are new bolts on that flange. they broke off while driving, that DEF injector (sorry if im not naming these correctly) was melted from the heat that came from the exhaust after the bolts broke and heat escaped upward.This is my buddies truck. apparently 3k repair bill.
posting this as you owners of earlier trucks may want to check yours to ensure they are not rusting. Prob a good idea to replace them with stainless steel bolts. For you knowledgeable lads this is simple to find, for guys like me, lie down beside your passenger side door, look under your vehicle and you will see it.
Frank

 

[carlhenry]

these have been seperaring for a while and the dealer charges a fortune 2 fix it

 

[Pekozip93]

why that very expensive heat sensitive part is mounted directly above a high temp heat source is beyond me.
That said, is there a point to my suggestion of rust proof bolts or is this more a matter of bad design/mounting/torsion ?
thanks

 

[ajb3015]

This is my buddies truck. apparently 3k repair bill.

If your buddy paid 3k to fix this, I feel sorry for him. I think the dealer shafted him.

these have been seperaring for a while and the dealer charges a fortune 2 fix it

I know of several, myself included, on another forum that have had the flange bolts fail. Most of us noticed the failure because it causes the exhaust to whistle at higher rpms or under heavy load. Granted I know of only 1 that had damaged/melted components because of it, but I don't think any of us have paid to fix it. Mine was covered under factory warranty, others were covered by the AEM warranty. But especially now, all of these components should be covered by the AEM warranty as emissions components; nobody should have to spend a dime.

why that very expensive heat sensitive part is mounted directly above a high temp heat source is beyond me.
That said, is there a point to my suggestion of rust proof bolts or is this more a matter of bad design/mounting/torsion ?
thanks

It's clearly mounted where it needs to be to function, and they at least attempted to protect it with some heat shielding. That said, I'm sure they never planned to have the flange separate either.

I doubt these are just grade 2 zinc plated bolts (probably aluminized like most exhaust components), so while corrosion may play a role in early failure, it's probably minimal. I haven't looked to see where, geographically, the majority of the failures are but I tend to think they are not specific to one region (e.g. the salt belt). So while stainless hardware won't hurt anything, I don't think it will help much either.

My guess is the most likely cause is thermal fatigue due to heat cycling. It's likely those of us with this failure tend to make sorter and/or more frequent trips, causing the flange to heat and cool more often. The expansion/contraction of the heat/cool cycle causes the bolt(s) to fail.

It also seems that these have become more common since the AEM. Possible causes are either:
a. higher heat from higher EGTs caused by the AEM
b. maybe the bolts failed long before the AEM, but due to the owners' driving style they likely never got the rpms high enough to hear the whistle. the AEM raised the shift points meaning the engine revs higher more often, and then everybody started hearing the whistle.

 

[Pekozip93]

Good info thank you. Im sure covered elsewhere but what reasoning was given for the AEM to raise the shift points?

 

[team RAMrod]

i just had these fixed (no charge) at the dealer. the truck threw a p22ee code i believe. they said a bolt broke and needed to be replaced.

 

[ajb3015]

Good info thank you. Im sure covered elsewhere but what reasoning was given for the AEM to raise the shift points?

I don't think any specific reason was ever given. We know that in the original tune the emissions equipment was shut off in situations where it would otherwise reduce the longevity of, or cause damage to, engine components. So when the EPA forced them to turn the emissions on, they had to adjust the engine operating parameters to either eliminate, or at least reduce, the damage that would be caused. Based on that, my guess is either:

a. different shift points/higher RPMs allow the engine to run in a manner that reduces the damage
b. It may not have been required by the EPA changes, but rather by the need to limit any perceived change in performance by the customer. In other words, just changing the engine tune may have been sufficient for the EPA, but the truck would have felt completely different to drive (some argue this is the case regardless). By changing the trans tune they were able to keep the "seat of the pants dyno" feel the same.

 

[woodfoot]

Hey Folks
Take a look at this pic, those are new bolts on that flange. they broke off while driving, that DEF injector (sorry if im not naming these correctly) was melted from the heat that came from the exhaust after the bolts broke and heat escaped upward.View attachment 2423This is my buddies truck. apparently 3k repair bill.
posting this as you owners of earlier trucks may want to check yours to ensure they are not rusting. Prob a good idea to replace them with stainless steel bolts. For you knowledgeable lads this is simple to find, for guys like me, lie down beside your passenger side door, look under your vehicle and you will see it.
Frank

I noticed the whining first about 15,000 miles ago on my 2016 Ecodiesel Tradesman with 4wd. Got progressively worse until I found two of the three bolts shown above were broken, with heads still welded to the flange of the DPF. I looked at the parts diagram, and believe these "studs" are actually a part of the DPF that are welded in some way, because they are darn near impossible to pound up. Anyways, Was considering trying to drill out the broken studs so I could install regular stainless bolts, but since I eventually plan to get the AEM and this will be covered by the extended emissions warranty associated with the AEM, I happened upon a temporary fix, instead in the meantime. Just use C-Clamps to hold the flange together (if you still have at least one stud left still holding). That's what I did yesterday, and works perfectly, and there is plenty of room there for the clamps. Now I can finally use the throttle again without that terrifying howl that sounded like my engine was about to blow up. I personally think the studs brake during heavy towing, as that is the only time the exhaust temps get very high. I think the problem started for me when I was towing a 7000 pound load through the Alleghenies,... engine oil was regularly at around 235-240F.

 

[Jaconi]

C clamps

I noticed the whining first about 15,000 miles ago on my 2016 Ecodiesel Tradesman with 4wd. Got progressively worse until I found two of the three bolts shown above were broken, with heads still welded to the flange of the DPF. I looked at the parts diagram, and believe these "studs" are actually a part of the DPF that are welded in some way, because they are darn near impossible to pound up. Anyways, Was considering trying to drill out the broken studs so I could install regular stainless bolts, but since I eventually plan to get the AEM and this will be covered by the extended emissions warranty associated with the AEM, I happened upon a temporary fix, instead in the meantime. Just use C-Clamps to hold the flange together (if you still have at least one stud left still holding). That's what I did yesterday, and works perfectly, and there is plenty of room there for the clamps. Now I can finally use the throttle again without that terrifying howl that sounded like my engine was about to blow up. I personally think the studs brake during heavy towing, as that is the only time the exhaust temps get very high. I think the problem started for me when I was towing a 7000 pound load through the Alleghenies,... engine oil was regularly at around 235-240F.

C clamps great temporary fix

 

[Wilderdude]

going through this now, i have one stud currently busted, top one boutgh a gasket and a set of grade 5 hardware to fix it because both the dealership and FCA have said this does not fall under the AEM warranty. I will call FCA tomorrow and try to angle of them being a part of the DPF and see if that changes anything as i thought ther were their own part.

 

[madman]

had this happen to mine 2016 Ram limited ECO, just got it back from dealer said I need all three bolts replaced, 450.00 I have been fighting with FCA for it to be covered on the AEM warranty, to no avail, just filed a complaint with the NHTSA I would suggest everyone having this problem to do the same, it is definitely a safety problem and definitely a FCA problem that should be recalled

 

[Wilderdude]

FCA replace mine under the extended emissions warranty 10yr/120000mile.

FCA will say hardware isn’t covered, and they’re right. Unfortunately for them they didn’t give the studs their own part number so it’s not the studs that are the issue, it’s the DPF.

when I told the FCA rep it was my DPF, and not the hardware, they changed their tune and said it was covered. I had a claim filed and even gave me a number to call if the dealership said they wouldn’t cover it.

Dealership gave me no issues with coverage. They tried to replace just the studs, but they don’t know what they’re doing I guess, and broke a weld on the DPF trying to hammer the studs out.

In the end I got a brand new DPF. I can’t say you’ll have the same results but the issue is 100% covered under FCA 10yr/120000mi extended emissions warranty

 

[madman]

update on my 2016 limited with this problem , fighting with FCA for reimbursement this definitely needs to be covered under the AEM parts guy even told me it should be , but Service Manager said no, so I found a shop in SLC Utah Harris Auto 300.00 or so to fix it, he pressed out the bolts so there was no heat, no drilling or no pounding them out , this is definitely a problem, and not happy with FCA, I used to love this truck but with all the endless Recalls I've about had enough. I wonder how the 2021 Ecodiesel is fairing?

 

[Eco Dave]

While Driving my 2016 Ram 1500 EcoDiesel 109,00km(67,730mi) , 4 and a half years old.
This message appeared. "Engine Will NOt Restart in 165km. Service DEF. See Dealer.
I was in the middle of nowhere as the mileage countdown msg warning began .. 156km, 100km, 56knm..etc.
My DEF fliud was over 1/4 full. At 22km I bought and filled up DEF with a jug. Turned Eng off then on. Msg remains.
Called Dodge and receptionist told me NOT to shut off engine as it happened to her as she shut off her engine and it would not restart. Go to Dealer.
I wanted to go back 350km(217mi) to my home with the truck, dealer told me at 22km when msg alert runs down, the truck will power down to 45km (30mph) and not go any faster. Whaaaaat!!!
So I gave it to the dealer.

Code Scan P20E8-00 (Reductant Pressure To Low)
Found on Inspection..Exhaust flange leaking, in turn this had Melted the DEF sensor line/plug.
Flange AND Catalytic Conv. Pipe came apart due to weakness. 3 Bolts sheared off Flange when mech tries to remove them..
They changed: DEF line, 2 Clamps, and CATALYTIC CONVERTER

Cost for repair all in...$3,000.00 CDN
(I took ALL the removed parts)

I paid $4300.00 Extra for this engine.!! What a Crock of HS!
Had the EGR replaced before the recall also. $2700.00 (I'm entitled to that $$ back tho,
only when I have another replaced due to the recall of EGR).

So guys/gals, Inspect those Bolts and pipe. Weak metals in High Heat Area.
Not sure why this all happened

 

[CAVEMANN]

Why not fab up a heat shield, or wrap the DEF parts with fiberglass heat wrap, or possibly a high heat header spark plug wire cover if it would fit over the connector plug. The shield looks like it would be an easy job.

 

[TexRam]

Having the same problem with a 2016 ecodiesel. Anyone have a part number for the DEF injector wiring harness connector? Can't find it on mopar, not sure if it's part of a larger wiring harness like the chassis wiring. Thank you!

 

[woodfoot]

50,000 miles later my C-Clamps are still holding up fine with zero problems. (Now at 160,000 miles). Did get the AEM, but haven't gotten around to having them replace the DPF under the extended warranty for this problem. The emissions part numbers depend on vehicle configuration....but see this site, they have good diagrams. Harness may technically be a part of the DEF tank? https://www.slimansparts.com/a/Ram_...ION-SYSTEM-EMISSION-COMPONENTS/TM13367.html#5

 

[Kaysea]

Hey Folks
Take a look at this pic, those are new bolts on that flange. they broke off while driving, that DEF injector (sorry if im not naming these correctly) was melted from the heat that came from the exhaust after the bolts broke and heat escaped upward.View attachment 2423This is my buddies truck. apparently 3k repair bill.
posting this as you owners of earlier trucks may want to check yours to ensure they are not rusting. Prob a good idea to replace them with stainless steel bolts. For you knowledgeable lads this is simple to find, for guys like me, lie down beside your passenger side door, look under your vehicle and you will see it.
Frank

I had the same failure. I my 30 yrs of Marine Service experience …. I know electrolysis corrosion when I see it, as well as rust when I see it.
In my failure I swear it is due to an electrolysis type of corrosion on the factory studs.
I had the “Bumper to bumper” Chrysler/Ram extended warranty on my truck when it failed and generated a $5000 repair estimate from my favorite Ram dealer in Amityville, LI, Ny which the extended warranty guy denied due to “Corrosion”. Estimate included drilling out the SS studs, new injector and new DEF tank Assembly because the melted injector harness plug/cable is part of the DEF and not available separately.

after they denied my claim and almost a month at the dealer I picked it up, drilled out the 3 studs and replaced with 3/8” SS bolt, washers & nuts, new injector and WS lucky enough to get the damaged harness plug to connect enough to work. $400 later I was back on the road.

mid anyone knows of a service bulletin or recall related to the 3 exhaust flange studs breaking etc, please post it. I want my $ back!!

 

[borutapl]

I got the same exact problem with mine. Just went to the dealer with printout specifying what's covered by AEM. Bolts where snapped, melted def injector plug, melted def delivery pipe. On top of that tech who performed inspection said that flange of def filter is cracked so they replaced it. All covers by warranty. My truck is 2015 with 110k.

 

[zambartas]

I had the same failure. I my 30 yrs of Marine Service experience …. I know electrolysis corrosion when I see it, as well as rust when I see it.
In my failure I swear it is due to an electrolysis type of corrosion on the factory studs.
I had the “Bumper to bumper” Chrysler/Ram extended warranty on my truck when it failed and generated a $5000 repair estimate from my favorite Ram dealer in Amityville, LI, Ny which the extended warranty guy denied due to “Corrosion”. Estimate included drilling out the SS studs, new injector and new DEF tank Assembly because the melted injector harness plug/cable is part of the DEF and not available separately.

after they denied my claim and almost a month at the dealer I picked it up, drilled out the 3 studs and replaced with 3/8” SS bolt, washers & nuts, new injector and WS lucky enough to get the damaged harness plug to connect enough to work. $400 later I was back on the road.

mid anyone knows of a service bulletin or recall related to the 3 exhaust flange studs breaking etc, please post it. I want my $ back!!

Did you remove the DPF to drill out the studs or just drill them out under the truck? I'm asking because I'm at the same point with my truck. Also where did you get the replacement hose connector for the DEF line? I believe my connector is fine, but the DEF line will leak without replacing the partially melted fitting.