Considering ED in California

[socalram]

I am in the market for buying a new and/or used truck. Currently I drive an 07 F150. I have been following forums, looking at internet prices and gathering info for the last couple months and have narrowed it down to the ED. Obviously, like many, the MPG is what stood out and is the BIGGEST contributor to me wanting the ED (My f150 gets 12mpg +/- and I’m tired of only getting 300 miles/tank).

This will possibly be my first diesel, and am somewhat aware of the higher diesel prices, DEF full-ups, increased cost of oil changes and maintance.

With that being said, I live is San Diego, therefore a lot of my driving is on city streets. However, I do drive the freeway to work, anywhere between 5-20 miles one way pending on where I’m working out of.

I do not tow anything, but do carry a loaded truck bed when hunting/camping.

I am aware that I cannot LEGALLY tune the truck, so as of now, GDE is not an option.

With that being said, what are your thoughts on an ED? I am considering a used bighorn or Laramie, 2016 or newer (most prices around 30-35k), or if I pull the trigger soon, I’ve found some new 2018s for around 35k. It seems 2016s and newer have less problems.

I’m primarily looking for a crew cab, 4x4, with 6’4 bed, as I need more space for gear. I have no plans to trade or sell it in the near future. So longevity is key.

I’ve seen a few recent posts regarding lawsuits, etc. which is all confusing to me.

With all that being said. What are your thoughts?
Ready, Go!

 

[BoostN]

Welcome! A few options in the half-ton diesel market now with Ford out there. The EcoDiesel is still a nice truck as long as you get a good one... with that said, I would opt for a warranty that covers major failures. Although any and all cars have problems, it seems the EcoDiesel is a hero or zero engine.

 

[Bob Herr]

I own a 2012 Ram 2500 with the 6.7 Cummins and a 2017 Ram 1500 with the 3.0 ED. Unless you need the extra power of a diesel for heavy loads, are going for super high miles or just want one for the cowboy factor they are a poor economic decision. When you consider the high initial cost of the Diesel engine, the high cost of fuel($.70 to $1.00/ gallon more than gas), the cost of DEF, the cost of oil and filter changes and frequent fuel filter changes the diesels cost a lot more per mile to operate than gas. I bought the truck with the Cummins because I pull a 5000 # trailer with it. I like the power but it only gets 11.2 MPG loaded. The truck with the ED was an impulse buy because of big price discounts. It gets 26 MPG driving 75 MPH on trips from Illinois to Mississippi. I like the ED power and smoothness but If I had done my homework about the ED I would not buy another one because I worry about the problems with them that don't plague gas trucks and the high operating cost.

 

[socalram]

I need a full size 4x. I want a truck that gets me great fuel mileage. I considered looking at the v6 etorque however most users realistically aren’t getting anywhere near the epa mpg. Then add A/T tires to the v6 and mpg decreases even more, along with power.

My current truck gets 12 mpg and as my daily driver, that is terrible fue economy. The 26 gallon tank gets me ~300 miles on a full tank, that’s not going to cut it.

In my mind, the ecodiesel makes more sense just from a convienence standpoint. Also, I don’t think the cost of owning as far as added diesel price or maintanence is an issue.

Ecodiesel gets 25MPG with 26 gal tank = 650 miles. Let’s just say diesel is + .50 cents over gas, and costs $3.50. that’s $91 a fill up. = .14 cents per mile.

Current truck At 12mpg with 26G tank, I’m looking at 312 miles per tank. Let’s say gas is $3/Gal. That’s $78 a tank, at 312 miles = .25 cents per mile.

So, to go the same amount of Miles, I need to pay roughly $156 to go the distance the ED goes on $91.

That’s a savings of $65 to go the same distance (almost the price of a full fill up in my current truck).

Over the course of 1 year? Let’s say I drive 15,000 miles per year.
-ED 15,000 / 650($91) = $2100 for 1 year of fuel.
-F150 15,000 / 312($78) = $3,750 for 1 year fuel.
That’s a savings of $1,650 a year in fuel.

Go ahead and tell me that DEF and oil change for 1 year comes anywhere close to $1650. Go ahead and tell me that - - assuming - - the new gen ED motor is solid, I’ll be spending close to that for increase Diesel engine maintanence cost.

That means I’m double my MPG and cutting fuel costs in half. Price and convenience all in one package.

And the added upfront price of ED engine? Pay for itself in 5 years. Even if it didn’t, like I said, convenience.

NOW FOR THE BIGGEST POINT OF MY ENTIRE POST......... I’m not good at math so I could be 100% wrong. Thanks for reading

 

[John Jensen]

You may have answered your own question.

Bob Herr makes sense but IMO he overstated the maintenance cost and perhaps the cost to own. I wouldn't argue those costs because for me I wanted the Ecodiesel. It's a matter of what do you want, decide and go for it.

I would buy another Ecodiesel in a heartbeat. Mine is my daily driver and includes a lot of very short trips to the store which is not good for any diesel. However, I got the GDE tune (my service manager said "good idea") prior to Califunny banning them in Caligestapo. I got it to shut down the EGR which is the soot manufacturer that causes problems for short trippers.

IMHO the forums are overloaded with negative posts as most owners with positive experiences aren't on the forums. Sure there have been problems, but go to Ford or Chevy forums and you'll find plenty of negative posts and problems there too.

I say, buy what you want, if you don't you'll always be sorry you didn't.

 

[BoostN]

IMHO the forums are overloaded with negative posts as most owners with positive experiences aren't on the forums. Sure there have been problems, but go to Ford or Chevy forums and you'll find plenty of negative posts and problems there too.

I agree 100%.. very few people come here to say "my truck is awesome".

 

[Georgek]

You may have answered your own question.

Bob Herr makes sense but IMO he overstated the maintenance cost and perhaps the cost to own. I wouldn't argue those costs because for me I wanted the Ecodiesel. It's a matter of what do you want, decide and go for it.

I would buy another Ecodiesel in a heartbeat. Mine is my daily driver and includes a lot of very short trips to the store which is not good for any diesel. However, I got the GDE tune (my service manager said "good idea") prior to Califunny banning them in Caligestapo. I got it to shut down the EGR which is the soot manufacturer that causes problems for short trippers.

IMHO the forums are overloaded with negative posts as most owners with positive experiences aren't on the forums. Sure there have been problems, but go to Ford or Chevy forums and you'll find plenty of negative posts and problems there too.

I say, buy what you want, if you don't you'll always be sorry you didn't.

John Jensen, you mentioned you have a good service manager at your dealership. Im in CA as well and am wondering if you have discussed any issues with removing the foam pads from the top of the engine, and if he has any opinion on the banks derringer if it gets carb approved?

 

[John Jensen]

George,

Sorry, haven't discussed either issue with him.
I removed foam, etc. based on comments on various forums where overall consensus was it wasn't needed.
Had no need regards Banks as I have the GDE tune. Have read about it but that's all.

 

[Georgek]

Thanks

 

[Leo]

SocalRam, Hello! I live in Cali and recently purchased a used 2015 Ram 1500 Laramie w/Air suspension has 45000 on it. So far so good! I dig it! 22 mph just buzzin around town. Looking at an oil catch can, they seem easy enough to change back when the smog cert. comes around! And oil changes are easy enough when ordering supplies through Amazon, Just remember to go with OEM oil filters and fuel filters, I went with Rotella 5W-40 T6 for the oil, $55.00 for 3 gals. Anyone else have any info?

 

[Arkie 16]

MY TRUCK IS AWESOME There someone said it.

 

[Georgek]

My 2018 has a little over 6k miles and no issues. Ive never seen a regen message or any check engine lights. It wouldnt go into reverse once, but, i now realize it was because the door was open. Smart truck! Some of the comments and issues concern me, but, living in CA, there isnt much i can do but lots of oil changes, good fuel, etc. the GDE sounds nice but i cannot do it. So, i love my ram laramie also!

 

[Bob Herr]

Socalram your arithmetic is good but your logic is flawed. You compared the cost of fuel for your old truck with cost of fuel for an ED. If you want to evaluate the cost of the diesel compare it with a new gas truck. If the ED gets 25 MPG and fuel is $3.00/gal fuel cost is 12 cents/ mile. If a new gas truck gets 20 MPG and gas is $2.30/gal fuel cost is 11.5cents/ mile so the ED is more costly to operate even though it gets better MPG. Also the ED costs about $4500 extra for the engine. Assume you drive it 150K miles that is another 3 cents per mile. Regarding maintenance costs the ED takes twice the volume of oil as a gas engine oil filters cost more and you gotta buy DEF and change fuel filters frequently. You can reduce maintenance costs if you do your own work but if you don't you are in for a surprise. Call around and see what an ED oil change and fuel filter costs. Local dealer charged me over $100 to change fuel filter on my 6.7 Cummins. The ED kool aid drinkers don't want to face facts but the ED costs more than a gas truck to own and operate.
Having said that I like my ED but worry about the problems with them even though mine has 11,500 trouble free miles on it. I agree that Internet amplifies unhappy owners complaints but FCD just agreed to a big settlement that will give owners a big cash payment to comp them for problems so that seems to support the case for many problems. Think twice before you buy one.

 

[socalram]

Which full size 4x4 pickup with a level and 33” A/T tires gets 20mpg? I know it’s not the ford ecoboooost because my buddy has one, bone stock, avg 16mpg combined

 

[Bob Herr]

Probably none but you make those changes to the ED it is not going to get 25 MPG either so the math will be the same. Go ahead and take another bid swig of the ED kool aid and buy one.

 

[John Jensen]

Bob,
You said, " FCD just agreed to a big settlement that will give owners a big cash payment to comp them for problems so that seems to support the case for many problems."
That "big settlement" had nothing to do with past problems. It only had to do with the EPA emission system case settlement. Thus it does not "support the case for many problems."

 

[Bob Herr]

John you are correct but it seems likely that the many soot problems I read about stem from the emissions control cheating?

 

[John Jensen]

Bob,
FCA did not intentionally cheat like Volkswagon, they failed to notify EPA of an emissions change which caused the furor at the almighty Federal and Califunny EPA departments.

The soot problems are a result of the EGR system required by EPA. And, it is exacerbated when the vehicle is subject to excessive short trips and not reaching proper operating temps (no diesel likes short trips). That is why so many of us have the GDE tune, to turn off the EGR and avoid any soot problems.

Like you, I really like my ED and its 14,500 trouble free miles. I try not to think about the various problems.

 

[VernDiesel]

Not sure if PPEI both turns off EGR and sells to CA or if you can have it or GDE shipped to an outside CA address. Also read some one else sells a none tune device to turn off EGR without generating codes.

 

[John Jensen]

Vern,
Last I heard was PPEI still able to sell in CA but don't know if it shuts off EGR. I doubt that it does, that's probably why they are still able to sell in CA.
Would like to know if someone else has the ability you mention. It would help a lot of Californians who can no longer get the GDE. Really glad I got mine early on.