Crank but no start

[TahoeEcoAnchor]

Hi all! New member and owner of a 2016 ram bighorn ED with 120k (as of feb-2022). Overall In the short time I’ve had it I’ve been pleased with the vehicle. Recently I became a student and victim of the apparently common lightning bolt, “service electronic throttle control”. I know there are many threads and videos about this, (I’ve sleeplessly searched, studied and noted all relative causes I’ve come across of),. I’m fairly certain the issue is the common crank sensor tone/reluctor wheel failure. I’ll accept this is the problem But I want to be sure of it before I proceed to replace it…..

I’m Semi fortunately close enough to work to walk there so the truck is basically a grocery getter for the summer. In my scenario, I remote started and warmed up about 2 minutes in 80 degree weather. drove about 2 miles to the grocery store. Truck ran normal to the store. Idling at a light headed home I thought I felt misfire/hiccups at my feet. Very subtle. Tachometer needle was steady and not detecting or showing anything unusual. I turned the radio off and tried to listen with windows open and closed. Light turned green before I was able to decipher, so off I went continuing home with normal smooth power at my feet. About a block away from light (30 seconds after wondering if it was my truck or someone’s radio/sub), the truck started feeling sluggish for about 5 seconds before I got all sorts of warnings flashing on my dash. I don’t remember the order or what all came up but I think I saw the service electronic throttle control, service electronic parking brake, service trailer brake and maybe low oil? Not sure. Soon as I noticed sluggish throttle and before warning lights I immediately slowed and started pulling over to see what’s going on. Only able to turn left I merged to the suicide lane slowing to a stop to turn into a lot. Focused on not hitting or getting hit by pedestrians zipping around on electric scooters or traffic I was unable to read all the warnings popping up. As I slowed to a stop to turn left the truck stalled. Dash message said something about shifting to park to blah blah blah? Again, I was more focused on everyone else around me so the messages on dash were in my peripherals. So now truck has stalled in the road. Cranks over but no start. Service electronic throttle control is all I see. I fiddle with sensor connections, battery, grounds, etc to the best of my ability while waiting for traffic to clear. No luck. Eventually learned how to put the truck in neutral via the pull cord behind the panel above parking brake and pushed myself off the road. towed home next day and begin diagnosing.

Previously I purchased Alpha OBD to help remove the annoying TPMS light and unlock some factory settings. so I charged up my tablet and plugged in the OBDlink and began reading codes. I found 4 codes.

P2122 App sensor 1 circuit low
P2127 App sensor 2 circuit low
P0299 Turbocharger under boost
P0336 Crank position sensor performance

Reading causes and fixes for those codes have commonly pointed to clogged MAF sensor, Clogged EGR tube and occasionally a loose or contaminated wiring harness connector.
In many cases cleaning and servicing those have neutralized the service electronic throttle control. Mind you, In many of those cases the vehicle is able to start and run in limp mode. As mine ran perfect and immediately opposite I’m suspecting a connection came fully apart or that tone ring fully failed.

Certain that a dirty MAF and EGR Tube is not the culprit, out of curiosity I presumed to remove, clean and inspect them both which was very satisfying as well as frightening. (Deleting that asap)
Disconnected and visually inspected every wiring connection I could reach. No water, rust, dirt, Burt or loose wires that I found. checked all the fuses. Found two blown ones relating to trailer brake and trailer right signal? I’ll have to check again.

While wiggling connectors and trying to start the vehicle I’ve drained the battery. So while It’s on the trickle charger hopefully recovering I’ve been going thru and comparing the few data logs that alpha OBD recorded. One from months ago while truck was running and doing a DPF regen and a few recent from after the truck died but while cranking over to start. There’s so much info. I have no idea what I’m looking at or for, while considering I’m comparing a log of a running motor to a log of a cranking motor.

BUT!! I found something interesting while scrolling through the matrix of a data log. hopefully helpful in confirming my nightmare about a failed tone ring. but again I don’t fully understand what I’m looking at and what it means. At least I hope I don’t.
on the recorded data log of the cranking and no start I’m looking for two things relative to the codes. Accelerator Pedal/throttle (P2122/P2127) and crank sensor(P0336).
while cranking over, the pedal/throttle percent (not touching the accelerator) is reading 17.97%, while the engine is reading 2.75 RPM which I believe is read off the crank sensor. Which is not right. Unless the ECU was updated from the recall so that it picks a signal from the cam sensor if and when the crank sensor malfunctions in which case the reading is different and wrong and also confirming there’s a crank sensor signal error. All while in the same data log with 2.75 RPM the vehicle speed is reading 203.95KM/H… in park, not running… —_—

So I’ve ordered an endoscope camera to attempt to probe behind the starter to inspect the tone ring. I really hope It’s not the problem and that I can narrow it down to something else less involved. I really love the truck and hope to have it for a long time. It would be months before I have the time from work to drop the trans. If anyone has ideas or questions I’m all ears!

Thanks for your time

 

[GearHead]

Hi all! New member and owner of a 2016 ram bighorn ED with 120k (as of feb-2022). Overall In the short time I’ve had it I’ve been pleased with the vehicle. Recently I became a student and victim of the apparently common lightning bolt, “service electronic throttle control”. I know there are many threads and videos about this, (I’ve sleeplessly searched, studied and noted all relative causes I’ve come across of),. I’m fairly certain the issue is the common crank sensor tone/reluctor wheel failure. I’ll accept this is the problem But I want to be sure of it before I proceed to replace it…..

I’m Semi fortunately close enough to work to walk there so the truck is basically a grocery getter for the summer. In my scenario, I remote started and warmed up about 2 minutes in 80 degree weather. drove about 2 miles to the grocery store. Truck ran normal to the store. Idling at a light headed home I thought I felt misfire/hiccups at my feet. Very subtle. Tachometer needle was steady and not detecting or showing anything unusual. I turned the radio off and tried to listen with windows open and closed. Light turned green before I was able to decipher, so off I went continuing home with normal smooth power at my feet. About a block away from light (30 seconds after wondering if it was my truck or someone’s radio/sub), the truck started feeling sluggish for about 5 seconds before I got all sorts of warnings flashing on my dash. I don’t remember the order or what all came up but I think I saw the service electronic throttle control, service electronic parking brake, service trailer brake and maybe low oil? Not sure. Soon as I noticed sluggish throttle and before warning lights I immediately slowed and started pulling over to see what’s going on. Only able to turn left I merged to the suicide lane slowing to a stop to turn into a lot. Focused on not hitting or getting hit by pedestrians zipping around on electric scooters or traffic I was unable to read all the warnings popping up. As I slowed to a stop to turn left the truck stalled. Dash message said something about shifting to park to blah blah blah? Again, I was more focused on everyone else around me so the messages on dash were in my peripherals. So now truck has stalled in the road. Cranks over but no start. Service electronic throttle control is all I see. I fiddle with sensor connections, battery, grounds, etc to the best of my ability while waiting for traffic to clear. No luck. Eventually learned how to put the truck in neutral via the pull cord behind the panel above parking brake and pushed myself off the road. towed home next day and begin diagnosing.

Previously I purchased Alpha OBD to help remove the annoying TPMS light and unlock some factory settings. so I charged up my tablet and plugged in the OBDlink and began reading codes. I found 4 codes.

P2122 App sensor 1 circuit low
P2127 App sensor 2 circuit low
P0299 Turbocharger under boost
P0336 Crank position sensor performance

Reading causes and fixes for those codes have commonly pointed to clogged MAF sensor, Clogged EGR tube and occasionally a loose or contaminated wiring harness connector.
In many cases cleaning and servicing those have neutralized the service electronic throttle control. Mind you, In many of those cases the vehicle is able to start and run in limp mode. As mine ran perfect and immediately opposite I’m suspecting a connection came fully apart or that tone ring fully failed.

Certain that a dirty MAF and EGR Tube is not the culprit, out of curiosity I presumed to remove, clean and inspect them both which was very satisfying as well as frightening. (Deleting that asap)
Disconnected and visually inspected every wiring connection I could reach. No water, rust, dirt, Burt or loose wires that I found. checked all the fuses. Found two blown ones relating to trailer brake and trailer right signal? I’ll have to check again.

While wiggling connectors and trying to start the vehicle I’ve drained the battery. So while It’s on the trickle charger hopefully recovering I’ve been going thru and comparing the few data logs that alpha OBD recorded. One from months ago while truck was running and doing a DPF regen and a few recent from after the truck died but while cranking over to start. There’s so much info. I have no idea what I’m looking at or for, while considering I’m comparing a log of a running motor to a log of a cranking motor.

BUT!! I found something interesting while scrolling through the matrix of a data log. hopefully helpful in confirming my nightmare about a failed tone ring. but again I don’t fully understand what I’m looking at and what it means. At least I hope I don’t.
on the recorded data log of the cranking and no start I’m looking for two things relative to the codes. Accelerator Pedal/throttle (P2122/P2127) and crank sensor(P0336).
while cranking over, the pedal/throttle percent (not touching the accelerator) is reading 17.97%, while the engine is reading 2.75 RPM which I believe is read off the crank sensor. Which is not right. Unless the ECU was updated from the recall so that it picks a signal from the cam sensor if and when the crank sensor malfunctions in which case the reading is different and wrong and also confirming there’s a crank sensor signal error. All while in the same data log with 2.75 RPM the vehicle speed is reading 203.95KM/H… in park, not running… —_—

So I’ve ordered an endoscope camera to attempt to probe behind the starter to inspect the tone ring. I really hope It’s not the problem and that I can narrow it down to something else less involved. I really love the truck and hope to have it for a long time. It would be months before I have the time from work to drop the trans. If anyone has ideas or questions I’m all ears!

Thanks for your time

You make my most analytical day seem simple. Keep it simple. Yep the Crank Position Sensor and Ring. One of the reflash recalls was to supplant the Crank Position Sensor as primary to the Camshaft Position Sensor, this was supposed to allow you to limp in when the Crank Tone Ring grenades (as they all do). My truck has the software update and when my Crank Position Sensor gave up the ghost I got no warning just an engine buck and a multitude of error messages, my wife read them off like a copilot while I searched for a landing site on a two lane road with no shoulder with the Toy Hauler in tow. My first code was the P0336 followed by a plethora of codes like yours. They are all the result of the forced engine shut down by the failing Tone Ring and Crank Sensor.

This ring and sensor require the removal of the transmission and transfer case (if you have a 4x4) to replace. Normally the tone ring lets go and takes out the sensor. My tone ring and labor was covered under an extended warranty but the sensor was not, not too big a hit.

 

[TahoeEcoAnchor]

You make my most analytical day seem simple. Keep it simple. Yep the Crank Position Sensor and Ring. One of the reflash recalls was to supplant the Crank Position Sensor as primary to the Camshaft Position Sensor, this was supposed to allow you to limp in when the Crank Tone Ring grenades (as they all do). My truck has the software update and when my Crank Position Sensor gave up the ghost I got no warning just an engine buck and a multitude of error messages, my wife read them off like a copilot while I searched for a landing site on a two lane road with no shoulder with the Toy Hauler in tow. My first code was the P0336 followed by a plethora of codes like yours. They are all the result of the forced engine shut down by the failing Tone Ring and Crank Sensor.

This ring and sensor require the removal of the transmission and transfer case (if you have a 4x4) to replace. Normally the tone ring lets go and takes out the sensor. My tone ring and labor was covered under an extended warranty but the sensor was not, not too big a hit.

Thank you. Yes I believe the tone ring is the culprit and I have one on order. My vin was not included in the recall unfortunately. Since my post I have removed my starter and inspected the ring with an endoscope. Oddly the ring looked okay. No cracks or gaps. So I’m continuing my search For other possible causes while I wait for the tone ring.

 

[TahoeEcoAnchor]

Update. Back on the road! To no surprise the tone ring was the issue. Bought the replacement for $25 and had a shop do the work for a fair price. Onto tuning next!

Hi all! New member and owner of a 2016 ram bighorn ED with 120k (as of feb-2022). Overall In the short time I’ve had it I’ve been pleased with the vehicle. Recently I became a student and victim of the apparently common lightning bolt, “service electronic throttle control”. I know there are many threads and videos about this, (I’ve sleeplessly searched, studied and noted all relative causes I’ve come across of),. I’m fairly certain the issue is the common crank sensor tone/reluctor wheel failure. I’ll accept this is the problem But I want to be sure of it before I proceed to replace it…..

I’m Semi fortunately close enough to work to walk there so the truck is basically a grocery getter for the summer. In my scenario, I remote started and warmed up about 2 minutes in 80 degree weather. drove about 2 miles to the grocery store. Truck ran normal to the store. Idling at a light headed home I thought I felt misfire/hiccups at my feet. Very subtle. Tachometer needle was steady and not detecting or showing anything unusual. I turned the radio off and tried to listen with windows open and closed. Light turned green before I was able to decipher, so off I went continuing home with normal smooth power at my feet. About a block away from light (30 seconds after wondering if it was my truck or someone’s radio/sub), the truck started feeling sluggish for about 5 seconds before I got all sorts of warnings flashing on my dash. I don’t remember the order or what all came up but I think I saw the service electronic throttle control, service electronic parking brake, service trailer brake and maybe low oil? Not sure. Soon as I noticed sluggish throttle and before warning lights I immediately slowed and started pulling over to see what’s going on. Only able to turn left I merged to the suicide lane slowing to a stop to turn into a lot. Focused on not hitting or getting hit by pedestrians zipping around on electric scooters or traffic I was unable to read all the warnings popping up. As I slowed to a stop to turn left the truck stalled. Dash message said something about shifting to park to blah blah blah? Again, I was more focused on everyone else around me so the messages on dash were in my peripherals. So now truck has stalled in the road. Cranks over but no start. Service electronic throttle control is all I see. I fiddle with sensor connections, battery, grounds, etc to the best of my ability while waiting for traffic to clear. No luck. Eventually learned how to put the truck in neutral via the pull cord behind the panel above parking brake and pushed myself off the road. towed home next day and begin diagnosing.

Previously I purchased Alpha OBD to help remove the annoying TPMS light and unlock some factory settings. so I charged up my tablet and plugged in the OBDlink and began reading codes. I found 4 codes.

P2122 App sensor 1 circuit low
P2127 App sensor 2 circuit low
P0299 Turbocharger under boost
P0336 Crank position sensor performance

Reading causes and fixes for those codes have commonly pointed to clogged MAF sensor, Clogged EGR tube and occasionally a loose or contaminated wiring harness connector.
In many cases cleaning and servicing those have neutralized the service electronic throttle control. Mind you, In many of those cases the vehicle is able to start and run in limp mode. As mine ran perfect and immediately opposite I’m suspecting a connection came fully apart or that tone ring fully failed.

Certain that a dirty MAF and EGR Tube is not the culprit, out of curiosity I presumed to remove, clean and inspect them both which was very satisfying as well as frightening. (Deleting that asap)
Disconnected and visually inspected every wiring connection I could reach. No water, rust, dirt, Burt or loose wires that I found. checked all the fuses. Found two blown ones relating to trailer brake and trailer right signal? I’ll have to check again.

While wiggling connectors and trying to start the vehicle I’ve drained the battery. So while It’s on the trickle charger hopefully recovering I’ve been going thru and comparing the few data logs that alpha OBD recorded. One from months ago while truck was running and doing a DPF regen and a few recent from after the truck died but while cranking over to start. There’s so much info. I have no idea what I’m looking at or for, while considering I’m comparing a log of a running motor to a log of a cranking motor.

BUT!! I found something interesting while scrolling through the matrix of a data log. hopefully helpful in confirming my nightmare about a failed tone ring. but again I don’t fully understand what I’m looking at and what it means. At least I hope I don’t.
on the recorded data log of the cranking and no start I’m looking for two things relative to the codes. Accelerator Pedal/throttle (P2122/P2127) and crank sensor(P0336).
while cranking over, the pedal/throttle percent (not touching the accelerator) is reading 17.97%, while the engine is reading 2.75 RPM which I believe is read off the crank sensor. Which is not right. Unless the ECU was updated from the recall so that it picks a signal from the cam sensor if and when the crank sensor malfunctions in which case the reading is different and wrong and also confirming there’s a crank sensor signal error. All while in the same data log with 2.75 RPM the vehicle speed is reading 203.95KM/H… in park, not running… —_—

So I’ve ordered an endoscope camera to attempt to probe behind the starter to inspect the tone ring. I really hope It’s not the problem and that I can narrow it down to something else less involved. I really love the truck and hope to have it for a long time. It would be months before I have the time from work to drop the trans. If anyone has ideas or questions I’m all ears!

Thanks for your time

 

[GearHead]

Good to hear you found a resolution. In the Hazardous Materials Response world and mechanics this is sometimes referred to as "Paralysis by Analysis". But you persevered and identified your issue, good job.

Enjoy.