EGR and SFT/GDE

[John]

cds13ca 7 John

Thanks for your clarifications - you made it easy for me to understand.

So the question that is left for me is if SFT & GDE both turn off the EGR and the pilot injections, why does SFT reach 66% sooner and GDE reach 80% for so much longer an interval? There must be more to it.

I don't think SFT alters the pilot injections. It's not as easy as simply turning them off.

 

[John Jensen]

I thought SFT did shut off pilot injection, I easily may be wrong. If that is the difference in the regen intervals that is a big difference.

I need to double check with SFT.

 

[Green Diesel]

^^^SKT does not change pilot timing or quantity events. GDE produces much less engine out PM (soot), so it does not need to regen as often.

Keep in mind the DPF is roughly 6 liters volume. Most manufactures target 5-7 grams/liter of soot loading to trigger a regen event.

 

[Pekozip93]

I agree with John! When I was stock, my regen times were about 8-10 min long (approx 8-10 km of highway driving). With GDE, the time to complete a regen might be 10-12 min, nothing significantly longer than before. I've actually been able to keep a regen going in traffic or at a light (I just put it in neutral while I wait and rev it up a little to keep the dpf tems high). Obviously it's better if it's moving but it can be done if you have the app so you can see what the temps are at...

On the images I shared, with Torque Pro, when it starts a regen, the soot levels jump from 80% to 100% until regen is complete. That's just on the screen app (I'm not sure why it does that), but in reality, the levels are not actually at 100% (only unless they were at 100% before you went into regen)..

Once the regen is done, it restarts around 8.4 or 8.6% (a little lower than stock which was around 9.2 or 9.4% (I don't recall the number).

All in all, GDE gives you a much longer time frame between regens, esp with city driving. I know what annoyed me, was I do a lot of city driving, and with stock tune, I was getting regen's every 2 days and I'd have to find a highway to complete it (good luck in Toronto when there's always traffic!!) It was becoming a PIA cause it was so frequent and with all the traffic, it was so hard to get the dpf up to temp... Now I regen every 2.5 weeks, sometimes 3.5 weeks if I did a lot of highway driving.

I will take a look at this app.. awesome thanks for this one, good to know when the regens are occurring Torque Pro

 

[cds13ca]

I will take a look at this app.. awesome thanks for this one, good to know when the regens are occurring Torque Pro

Most of the sensors I had posted in the pic, are custom made PID's, if you need the PID codes for the regen message and the dpf temp, I'd be happy to share that. With torque pro, there's a lot of common sensors you can monitor, and some that I had to custom create like regen messages, I had to find the custom PID's for them. They're out there if you search google...

 

[John Jensen]

cds13ca,
You have found or made some great PID's for Torque Pro. Do you have one or is it able to show Passive Regens?
I stopped using Torque Pro when I installed my Edge Insight CTS2 which has limited PIDs and no ability to have custom PIDs.
I like your PIDs, may have to resurrect the Torque Pro

 

[cds13ca]

cds13ca,
You have found or made some great PID's for Torque Pro. Do you have one or is it able to show Passive Regens?
I stopped using Torque Pro when I installed my Edge Insight CTS2 which has limited PIDs and no ability to have custom PIDs.
I like your PIDs, may have to resurrect the Torque Pro

I have the one that either shows active or inactive, but I am not sure if that translates to active / passive (I'm assuming that's what it means??) If someone is better familiar with torque pro and understands the PID's I've posted, perhaps they have a better explanation.

Usually when the DPF heats up, regen goes ON for a few min, and Type shows inactive, then once it's hot enough, REGEN stays ON, and TYPE goes ACTIVE.



Here's the Torque Pro custom PID's
DPF REGEN MODE
OBD2 Mode and PID: 018b
Long name: DPF REGEN MODE
Short Name: RegenMode
Min Val: 0.0
Max Val: 1.0
Scale Factor x1
Unit Type: Mode
Equation: {B:0}

When you add this to the display, choose the type of display as "On/Off" display

DPF TYPE:
OBD2 Mode and PID: 018b
Long name: DPF TYPE
Short Name: DPF Type
Min Val: 0.0
Max Val: 1.0
Scale Factor x1
Unit Type: Mode
Equation: {B:1}

When you add this to the display, choose the type of display as "On/Off" display - then go back, hold the button, and change "on/off" wording

This one tells you the DPF soot % (this one tells me when I'm getting close to a regen - 66% triggers a stock / SFT tune regen, 80% triggers regens for GDE tunes
OBD2 Mode and PID: 018b
Long name: DPF CAPACITY
Short Name: DPF %
Min Val: 0.0
Max Val: 100.0
Scale Factor x1
Unit Type: %
Equation: (C*100)/255
OBD Header: Auto

DPF Temperature
OBD2 Mode and PID: 013c
Long name: DPF Temperature (custom)
Short Name: DPF TEMP
Min Val: 0.0
Max Val: 725.0
Scale Factor x1
Unit Type: oC (should be a degree symbol) - I can't find it on this forum)
Equation: ((A*256)+B)/10

 

[John]

cds13ca,
You have found or made some great PID's for Torque Pro. Do you have one or is it able to show Passive Regens?
I stopped using Torque Pro when I installed my Edge Insight CTS2 which has limited PIDs and no ability to have custom PIDs.
I like your PIDs, may have to resurrect the Torque Pro

Passive regens are intermittent based on EGT temps. I'm not aware of any gauge that will show any indication of a passive regen. Passive regens rarely happen unless towing heavy in hilly terrain. Still very unlikely with the stock or SFT tune algorithms.

 

[cds13ca]

Passive regens are intermittent based on EGT temps. I'm not aware of any gauge that will show any indication of a passive regen. Passive regens rarely happen unless towing heavy in hilly terrain. Still very unlikely with the stock or SFT tune algorithms.

Does Passive depend on EGT or DPF temps inside? I measure both and the dpf shows 1250-1300 during regens, but the EGT never gets that hot... Maybe 800-900F during an active regen... What types of temps would it have to achieve to do a passive regen?

 

[John]

Consistent EGR's post turbo in the 700-750° F range can get the DPF hot enough. In my experience it's more likely under those conditions to simply stop the soot percentage from increasing and extending the distance between regens. It's unlikely to see the soot percentage actually decrease, but it's possible especially if you're running the GDE tune.

Like I said it's likely not going to happen with the stock or SFT tune. Another great feature with GDE.

Here's a quote from GDE

"Passive regens happen when there is sufficient exhaust temperature and a favorable NO2/NOx ratio for the soot to burn. This phenomena will happen starting with exhaust temps in the 380-400°C range.
However...the stock tunes are not capable to detect that passive regeneration is taking place, and to thus slow the modeled accumulation of soot and/or decrease it if the burn rate exceeds the production rate. This is why the intervals are not improved more in the highway cycles.

...we fixed this with our tunes, in order to avoid regenerating when it's not necessary.



the DPF is made to withstand a certain number of regens by being taken to very high
temperatures , so the less regens the better."

 

[cds13ca]

Consistent EGR's post turbo in the 700-750° F range can get the DPF hot enough. In my experience it's more likely under those conditions to simply stop the soot percentage from increasing and extending the distance between regens. It's unlikely to see the soot percentage actually decrease, but it's possible especially if you're running the GDE tune.

Like I said it's likely not going to happen with the stock or SFT tune. Another great feature with GDE.

Here's a quote from GDE

"Passive regens happen when there is sufficient exhaust temperature and a favorable NO2/NOx ratio for the soot to burn. This phenomena will happen starting with exhaust temps in the 380-400°C range.
However...the stock tunes are not capable to detect that passive regeneration is taking place, and to thus slow the modeled accumulation of soot and/or decrease it if the burn rate exceeds the production rate. This is why the intervals are not improved more in the highway cycles.

...we fixed this with our tunes, in order to avoid regenerating when it's not necessary.



the DPF is made to withstand a certain number of regens by being taken to very high
temperatures , so the less regens the better."

Awesome explanation, thanks for sharing that information. That was always my concern and one of the reasons I chose GDE.

A DPF can only do so many regen cycles, just like any wear and tear part, so if we can do things to reduce the number of times the DPF has to hit 1300F, the long term effect is in theory, the DPF should last longer before it is completely clogged up and needs replacing... DPF's are pretty expensive to replace.. well more than the cost of a tune... Of course, if you delete the dpf, scr, def and go straight pipes, then regens wouldn't even be a concern, EPA would be your bigger problem...

 

[John]

Remember the regen only turns the soot to ash. The ash remains in the DPF and eventually will need replacement. I wouldn't be surprised if a GDE tuned truck will never need a DPF replacement

 

[John Jensen]

John,

I also have that GDE description.
Here's another I collected that verifies same:


Passive = the engine is working hard enough that the EGT's are hot enough to keep the regeneration of the DPF in process. There is no extra fuel burned.

Generally the EGT’s will not get hot enough for a passive regeneration at unloaded highway speeds. The EGT’s can reach passive temps when towing, carrying a full load, or driving hard.

 

[fxclm5]

If you dig deep enough ppl state/claim gde is using some european companies tune as well lol

 

[John]

If you dig deep enough ppl state/claim gde is using some european companies tune as well lol

Never heard that one before. Tuning is GDE's business and they have worked with FCA and others.

Let's not forget GDE is comprised of a team with numerous years experience working in the diesel calibration field. I doubt there's any validity to that claim. Lol.

 

[cds13ca]

Never heard that one before. Tuning is GDE's business and they have worked with FCA and others.

Let's not forget GDE is comprised of a team with numerous years experience working in the diesel calibration field. I doubt there's any validity to that claim. Lol.

Me neither, that's the first I've heard. GDE does a lot of field testing, they have their own ecodiesels and run testing on their own trucks before they start mucking around with other peoples ecu. I'd be interested to see valid proof of that claim and responses from GDE.

 

[cds13ca]

[/QUOTE]

If you dig deep enough ppl state/claim gde is using some european companies tune as well lol

Are you refering to GDE in Europe? http://www.greendieseleurope.com/index.php/partnership

Are they not the same company / partners? According to my understanding of their website, the two are partners, one tuner for the european diesel market europe, and of course our gde tuner here in the USA.

If what you said was true, why would the european website also be advertising for the American website by providing a link to GDE in USA?

This it taken right off the european website:
"We have created a partnership with the US based company to make available the already developed very successful tunes
to the European market, as well as to create new tunes specifically dedicated to diesel vehicles available in Europe only."


I read that as GDE in USA developed a great tune, and with the partnership, they are now able to sell it in Europe as well. Doesn't say anything about GDE in USA taking the tune from some european company... If anything, it's the other way around.

 

[Green Diesel]

Green Diesel Engineering is based in metro Detroit. All our development is stateside. Hard to develop a Ram tune in Europe as the vehicles were never sold there. The European affiliate is just an sales arm for some vehicles we tune that are sold in Europe like the Jeep Liberty, Grand Cherokee, VW products, etc. While the internet rumors are funny, they are not true.

 

[fxclm5]

Go search YouTube ppl claim gde is a spin-off of a Celtic tune, I saw this like a few years back. All I know is someone cracked the code for the Bosch ecu, was it gde or some euro company I have no clue. Nor do I care, but Celtics tuning website looks like they support way more then what gde does

 

[cds13ca]

Go search YouTube ppl claim gde is a spin-off of a Celtic tune, I saw this like a few years back. All I know is someone cracked the code for the Bosch ecu, was it gde or some euro company I have no clue. Nor do I care, but Celtics tuning website looks like they support way more then what gde does

I know a lot who had Celtic and switched to gde. The two times are NOT even in the same league. I highly doubt there is truth to that.