EPA holding 2017 Diesels hostage

[Cliffy]

That figures, just signed a deal for a new Hemi Ram.

 

[adaman7]

He sent me a follow up email to clarify.

"The target for certification is still the end of May but job 1 was pushed out to the week of 5/22 with estimated production of 200 units."

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[adaman7]

That figures, just signed a deal for a new Hemi Ram.

I think you should call them and see if they will work something out with you. I plan on trading mine in as soon as they start 2018 productions.

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[bobcat67]

I say everyone should buy an F150 diesel when they come out

 

[BoostN]

I say everyone should buy an F150 diesel when they come out

Just in case you guys do... https://f150diesel.com/forum/

 

[adaman7]

Just in case you guys do... https://f150diesel.com/forum/

Ford looks are cheap. I hope they update the appearance but they are still likely to be 8k more than the dodge equivalent. I wish GMC, would make a v6 turbo diesel I like their looks better.

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[BoostN]

Ford looks are cheap. I hope they update the appearance but they are still likely to be 8k more than the dodge equivalent. I wish GMC, would make a v6 turbo diesel I like their looks better.

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I've never been a Ford fan.. but, they have a strong following, always have. Maybe that small diesel will change my mind?

The 2018 looks a little different. I think the 17's look better though.

 

[adaman7]

I will add some pictures of my new toy asap. I was busy putting on rocksliders with step ups today. Worst directions I have ever had to follow before. Father in law wants it if I end up going with the diesel so at least I know someone close will get all the perks.

 

[TC Diesel]

/I got these links form Icanfixit

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-fiat-chrysler-emissions-idUSKCN18D2UC?il=0
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/arti...y-lawsuit-over-fiat-chrysler-diesel-emissions
http://www.cnbc.com/2017/05/17/reut...at-chrysler-over-excess-diesel-emissions.html

IMO their is differences between VW and Fiat software , VWs detected testing and adjusted, Fiat software was conditional. None the less it violated ACA/ CAA laws...Maybe the law needs to adjust, but at the time the vehicles were sold is what counts and Fiat going to loose big time.

 

[R Stanley]

I do believe FCA turned in certification to the powers to be on the 3.0 in Ram and GC today, from what I have been reading.

 

[Cliffy]

I think you should call them and see if they will work something out with you. I plan on trading mine in as soon as they start 2018 productions.

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I ended up taking the deal. It was just too good to pass up. I'm going to miss the fuel economy but with warranty expiring, and a long commute, I have heard enough stories of people waiting on even simple repairs for months. I hope these things get sorted out because I'll be keeping up on it.

 

[bobcat67]

Sounds like they submitted for certification today

 

[TC Diesel]

Its just a shot over the Bow IMO or fake info, WTH would you cert for 2017? it does NO good to change the Criminal Charges NOW being investigated at the DOJ pending charges. The EPA turned over its findings to the DOJ and it has NOT retracted Notice of Violations dated Jan 12 2017. the EPA has no further info on 2017, IMO it just paper submittal to the Central Data exchange to cloud Matters up.

 

[AJ73942]

As a 2016 LongHorn Hemi owner last year, I know you'll be happy with it your Hemi. It's a pleasure to listen to and fun to drive. The GO of the Hemi compared to the turbo lag of the Eco is remarkable. Mileage with the Hemi will be the part you'll wish was just a little better. Mine normally ran around 17-19, but once in the Rockies I did break 20 with it. It was a new truck then with 2500 or so miles on it. I traded it on the Cummins when it had about 7800 miles and the mileage hadn't improved markedly. I'm now in the process of trading my Cummins and Eco in for a new Hemi LongHorn. While I love them both, it's an expensive fleet to pay for every month and I can eliminate a big car payment and lower my insurance cost this way. I will really miss my Eco. In past 10 months I've put about 11,000 miles on it and it's been the one I jump into whenever I go somewhere. It's been absolutely perfect and always returns at least 600 miles per tank of fuel. My best tank was 700.5 miles - with lots anxiety and fingers crossed hoping that i'd make it to the fuel pump before running out. I had never planned to keep the Eco forever and was looking at the potential expenses down the road. The EGR system on both trucks seems inane to me to force all of that diesel soot back in across the valves where it will build up. The DPF/Regen exhaust system is another area that would require consideration. I read many years ago that the exhaust system added about $10-12k to the price of a diesel truck and it's not hard to see how replacing any of those components would get expensive very quickly. IF I were to keep either truck beyond the warranty period, I would strongly consider an EGR and DPF delete. This gets expensive and requires a tuner of some sort to fool the computer. Emissions would go up, but so would longevity. Would my state start to require emissions testing in the future where I'd get in a pinch? Who knows?

This is likely self-justification for my plans, but owning a Hemi is pretty much effortless. Their only unusual maintenance requirement is spark plug replacement more frequently than it should be. When dealing with the diesels, you have to be mindful of the DEF, which has never been much of an issue, just something additional that you have to do. Oil changes are expensive, but you can sometimes find a dealer with a service coupon special like i did for $120 for the Eco, otherwise you're looking at over $170 each time. Still, compared with >$50 for the Hemi, it adds up. Diesel fuel filters are another area that you need to keep in mind. I believe I paid about $28 for mine (Eco) from the dealer, but I could buy them online for about $10. Changing the fuel filter isn't too bad, but you will inevitably get some fuel on you. Changing fuel filters is a 15-20K mile requirement. I've only put about 3800 miles on the Cummins so I haven't experienced the oil change and fuel filter costs for it, but I know they are expensive. I've enjoyed owning both of them and will always regard them as great trucks.

I wanted to get an Eco to experience the fantastic fuel mileage, and it didn't disappoint me. I was lucky enough to find a barely used one with only 7500 miles. Still, after having owned this one, would I buy another Eco? Given the cloud about emissions certification and a possibly mpg lowering fix, potential future emissions systems costs, higher routine maintnance service costs , and the fact that diesel fuel is always higher than gasoline - I probably wouldn't, That's easy for me to say since I've had one, and it's been a great experience. To others aching to get one like I once was, it's hard to understand. This is just my experience and opinion. To those wanting an Eco, pursue it, get one and enjoy it.

I think you'll be fine with your quad cab Hemi. As you said, you may still look at an Eco in the future. Best of luck with it and enjoy your new truck!

 

[adaman7]

As a 2016 LongHorn Hemi owner last year, I know you'll be happy with it your Hemi. It's a pleasure to listen to and fun to drive. The GO of the Hemi compared to the turbo lag of the Eco is remarkable. Mileage with the Hemi will be the part you'll wish was just a little better. Mine normally ran around 17-19, but once in the Rockies I did break 20 with it. It was a new truck then with 2500 or so miles on it. I traded it on the Cummins when it had about 7800 miles and the mileage hadn't improved markedly. I'm now in the process of trading my Cummins and Eco in for a new Hemi LongHorn. While I love them both, it's an expensive fleet to pay for every month and I can eliminate a big car payment and lower my insurance cost this way. I will really miss my Eco. In past 10 months I've put about 11,000 miles on it and it's been the one I jump into whenever I go somewhere. It's been absolutely perfect and always returns at least 600 miles per tank of fuel. My best tank was 700.5 miles - with lots anxiety and fingers crossed hoping that i'd make it to the fuel pump before running out. I had never planned to keep the Eco forever and was looking at the potential expenses down the road. The EGR system on both trucks seems inane to me to force all of that diesel soot back in across the valves where it will build up. The DPF/Regen exhaust system is another area that would require consideration. I read many years ago that the exhaust system added about $10-12k to the price of a diesel truck and it's not hard to see how replacing any of those components would get expensive very quickly. IF I were to keep either truck beyond the warranty period, I would strongly consider an EGR and DPF delete. This gets expensive and requires a tuner of some sort to fool the computer. Emissions would go up, but so would longevity. Would my state start to require emissions testing in the future where I'd get in a pinch? Who knows?

This is likely self-justification for my plans, but owning a Hemi is pretty much effortless. Their only unusual maintenance requirement is spark plug replacement more frequently than it should be. When dealing with the diesels, you have to be mindful of the DEF, which has never been much of an issue, just something additional that you have to do. Oil changes are expensive, but you can sometimes find a dealer with a service coupon special like i did for $120 for the Eco, otherwise you're looking at over $170 each time. Still, compared with >$50 for the Hemi, it adds up. Diesel fuel filters are another area that you need to keep in mind. I believe I paid about $28 for mine (Eco) from the dealer, but I could buy them online for about $10. Changing the fuel filter isn't too bad, but you will inevitably get some fuel on you. Changing fuel filters is a 15-20K mile requirement. I've only put about 3800 miles on the Cummins so I haven't experienced the oil change and fuel filter costs for it, but I know they are expensive. I've enjoyed owning both of them and will always regard them as great trucks.

I wanted to get an Eco to experience the fantastic fuel mileage, and it didn't disappoint me. I was lucky enough to find a barely used one with only 7500 miles. Still, after having owned this one, would I buy another Eco? Given the cloud about emissions certification and a possibly mpg lowering fix, potential future emissions systems costs, higher routine maintnance service costs , and the fact that diesel fuel is always higher than gasoline - I probably wouldn't, That's easy for me to say since I've had one, and it's been a great experience. To others aching to get one like I once was, it's hard to understand. This is just my experience and opinion. To those wanting an Eco, pursue it, get one and enjoy it.

I think you'll be fine with your quad cab Hemi. As you said, you may still look at an Eco in the future. Best of luck with it and enjoy your new truck!

I'm curious why you never considered doing getting a "tune egr/regent delete".(for lack of a better term) it's my understanding that certain ones are undetectable, increase fuel efficiency and promote a cleaner engine by deleting those. Being still in the market I am curious maybe it would help corral my decision.

 

[adaman7]

Oh, and my new Hemi does like to rumble. We already had one in the family, with my wife's Jeep, I was already aware of how fun it was to drive. I've already added the varram cold air intake so I can add a second battery and isolator to the engine Bay. It gets the stock cai location freed up where you can use the aux battery tray.

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[adaman7]

I know it's difficult to not be emotional about this for some people. The truth is the criminal and civil charges won't go away, if the EcoD passes current EPA regulations, there may or may not be federal legislation that allows the EPA to hold up certification. Most likely it's an attempt to get a popular product line back on the market before they lose any more market share than necessary. The truth is, even with an over bloated bureaucracy such as is, it takes time and political will to pass legislation for every potential situation and I doubt seriously they have spent political capital on that.

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[AJ73942]

I'm curious why you never considered doing getting a "tune egr/regent delete".(for lack of a better term) it's my understanding that certain ones are undetectable, increase fuel efficiency and promote a cleaner engine by deleting those. Being still in the market I am curious maybe it would help corral my decision.

I had actually ordered one - can't recall which one - it was about $1200 and promised all sorts of performance and mileage gains. I called the guy and cancelled the order the next day because of concerns about it voiding my warranty.

 

[AJ73942]

I know it's difficult to not be emotional about this for some people. The truth is the criminal and civil charges won't go away, if the EcoD passes current EPA regulations, there may or may not be federal legislation that allows the EPA to hold up certification. Most likely it's an attempt to get a popular product line back on the market before they lose any more market share than necessary. The truth is, even with an over bloated bureaucracy such as is, it takes time and political will to pass legislation for every potential situation and I doubt seriously they have spent political capital on that.

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Prior to Scott Pruitt being appointed to head the EPA, I would agree with your logic. I think now that all bets are off given his pro-energy - to hell with the environment mantra. It will be interesting to see how that all plays out. I personally felt like the EPA was a bit too aggressive, but what will we say to the next generation when they ask why we didn't do better?

 

[bobcat67]

Prior to Scott Pruitt being appointed to head the EPA, I would agree with your logic. I think now that all bets are off given his pro-energy - to hell with the environment mantra. It will be interesting to see how that all plays out. I personally felt like the EPA was a bit too aggressive, but what will we say to the next generation when they ask why we didn't do better?

I say the next generation is a bunch of man bun wearing want something for nothing pussies, if they want better they're gonna have to work, something they don't like hearing, they just want everything for free and already done