FCA insider document reveals current engine failure rate.

[GearHead]

Along the thread, I saw the "Insider Information" post when it came out and personally could not make heads nor tails of what it really meant. Through the contacts that I make from one or more of my jobs I have had the pleasure of speaking to several ED owners and none have had any catastrophic issues. Most recent was a utility sub contractor who drives his 15 ED in OK and TX rebuilding and maintaining electric transmission lines. He has suffered no ill manners and gets better fuel mileage than I do, jealous, and since I netted 26.5 mpg on recent trip to MO at 70 to 75mph he was doing good. I have talked to a General Contractor who has three ED's in his fleet, his newest a 2016 is his personal vehicle.
Vern must be doing good to pay for a pan drop on ATF every 100K that gets expensive. I will also agree on the trailer brake, the few times I have towed with the trailer brake it is so good it should go a long way toward brake mileage. I also carry a code reader in the truck.
On another note, but still in the thread, the Municipality that I work for has invested heavily in the Power Stroke brand and I recently learned that we are experiencing multiple Power Stroke failures. Blown head gaskets, spun rod and main bearings, grenaded engines, all in the newer SCT DPF models. Analysis from Equipment Maintenance Department, Selling Dealer, and Manufacturer, oil change mileage has been slashed in half, OA at oil change, driver training. It seems that starting motor cold, running full throttle for 4 to 6 minutes then half an hour idle with about 10 minutes normal city driving is not conducive to the Regen Cycle which has been loading up the system, overheating the exhaust and causing fuel wash down of the piston rings. The driver retraining may never take, as FD is emergency response, however we have begun starting each shift, day, with a leisure highway drive for about 20 minutes to allow exhaust system to catch up. This strategy has been adopted by another local authority in their 2017 Power Stroke Grass Rigs. Talk about cost!!! The Power Stroke long block with accessories cost more than an ICM series Cummings, and is now on Back Order!

 

[Pooky]

Curious to find out from Vern how he drives his rig, but I know the answer!! Don’t drive like a teenager! Warm up, idle down, smooth on throttle and avoid banging off rev limiter. Good maintenance, good fuel and conservative mods that reduce stress on motor and drivetrain. I drive a diesel different than a gas car. I have a lot of confidence in this engine to last 300 k plus but time will tell. 200+ k and pulling the whole time is impressive!

 

[TC Diesel]

Vern uses His ED in commercial use....In HWY use the 3.0 hangs in with the best....1st its less stress on rotating mass, 2nd The OEM programing targets conditional use defeat. One of the reasons the 3.0 does well for longevity, in addition Vern is GDE tuned. I just bump into another owner and he had 300K on his 14 Hwy use. In the diesel world Bragging rights start at 500K, Their are hundred of 1000s of Diesel Motors with 500K+ The ED was targeted for family use, its unlikely family use and 300K major problem free. With proper Service I see 150K miles doable in family use major problem free.

 

[VernDiesel]

Gear head, I do my own trans service on a buddy's lift. Amazon has new filter pans for $118 after which you can just change the filter which is $44. Actually per TC I now just use Valvoline Maxlife full synthetic ATF $24 a gallon. It may not have been "approved" by Ram but it sure has worked well the last 55k. So 6ish quarts & a filter is $80. Back in the day the original dealer quote was $1200.

Drive it to the shop make sure coolant reaches 176 degrees on your truck temps screen. Put truck up on lift & drain, drop pan change filter reinstall and fill. I use Cool Tech's lube mover as it makes it quick clean & fast compared to cheap plastic auto parts store pumps. Run truck or not until trans temp is between 84 & 122 degrees per your trucks temps screen. Manually shift through the gears using the steering wheel buttons per ZF's online instructions. Put the truck down your done. A lil more complicated & time consuming than transmissions of yesteryear but not hateful once you have done it once or twice & have figured out what the instructions flow chart is telling you to do.

Pookey you nailed it 350k now, motor still always runs flawlessly. Sometimes I drive aggressive even fast but try not to be abussive. Out west with 80 speedlimits she sweet spots at 83 running empty with tune & on CC she can average 24 mpg.

But I spend a lot of time in 7th at 2,100ish rpms at 65ish mph towing TTs. Towing up a long grade I usually settle in at 55 making sure to keep the tach at or below 3k. I don't second guess ZF I use tow haul as I am more concerned with transmission longevity than trying to squeeze out a fraction of a mpg.

 

[GearHead]

Gear head, I do my own trans service on a buddy's lift. Amazon has new filter pans for $118 after which you can just change the filter which is $44. Actually per TC I now just use Valvoline Maxlife full synthetic ATF $24 a gallon. It may not have been "approved" by Ram but it sure has worked well the last 55k. So 6ish quarts & a filter is $80. Back in the day the original dealer quote was $1200.

Drive it to the shop make sure coolant reaches 176 degrees on your truck temps screen. Put truck up on lift & drain, drop pan change filter reinstall and fill. I use Cool Tech's lube mover as it makes it quick clean & fast compared to cheap plastic auto parts store pumps. Run truck or not until trans temp is between 84 & 122 degrees per your trucks temps screen. Manually shift through the gears using the steering wheel buttons per ZF's online instructions. Put the truck down your done. A lil more complicated & time consuming than transmissions of yesteryear but not hateful once you have done it once or twice & have figured out what the instructions flow chart is telling you to do.

Pookey you nailed it 350k now, motor still always runs flawlessly. Sometimes I drive aggressive even fast but try not to be abussive. Out west with 80 speedlimits she sweet spots at 83 running empty with tune & on CC she can average 24 mpg.

But I spend a lot of time in 7th at 2,100ish rpms at 65ish mph towing TTs. Towing up a long grade I usually settle in at 55 making sure to keep the tach at or below 3k. I don't second guess ZF I use tow haul as I am more concerned with transmission longevity than trying to squeeze out a fraction of a mpg.

Awesome. The Valvoline Maxlife is a good product, we use the BG full synthetic ATF. The dealer price is what I was referencing, dealer wants $250 to flush. Our cost alone for ATF for flush is around $125 so the dealer flush price is appropriate but the pan drop, filter change is a little high, facetious smile.

I agree with TC your driving style and maintenance regimen are, along with a tune, the winning combination to longevity. I know from training and experience that diesel power plants like, prefer, the long haul. That was the reason for my personal analysis of driving style and needs before purchasing my 14 ED. Keep up the good work.

 

[jdn112011]

Personally I will be using champion synthetics global trans atf that is rated for 10 speed. Running it in my other vehicles with positive results, even correcting issues in an older transmission with a previously shuttering TC on another brand of new fluid, has since been corrected. I have been very happy with champion synthetics. So after winter will come the sercive. About to hit 60k so its coming soon.

High quality transmission fluid really holds it's own in my experience.

 

[BighornCraig]

If suggested retail price of the engine is $2,993.30 who the fuck cares? That's the cheapest light duty diesel out of the crate you'll find. I can imagine 4cyl going for more. Compare that price to the alleged Cummins part number at $8,428?

Total engine failure out of Warranty, $3k brand new factory crate motor, wrench on it yourself, bring to dealer for necessary software synchronization at the end.

Because everyone can just wrench it on themselves.
Thats not very reasonable brother!

 

[BRAD MILLER]

$ just quoted $15,000.00 for mine...

 

[BRAD MILLER]

I'm really not debating the reliability between the power plants as the Cummins seems to be as well built as they come, and it's apparent a certain percentage of failures plaque VM. Nevertheless, maybe I need help understanding some things...

Take the same problem with both engines, say a spun bearing; are they both remedied by total engine replacement? Can it be just more cost effective to replace the entire 3.0L vs shop time rebuilding the engine whereas the 6.7L would be rebuilt? Both are failures, but only one requires a crate engine that would show on these reports. Maybe there's something to that, I don't know.

As far as joining that lawsuit? It's something I couldn't rightly join as I in no way bought this truck based on its tailpipe emissions. Now if a software fix that kills mileage and reduces engine life is mandatory to get it registered, then yea, we can talk about compensation.

If we are suing because of a 'claimed' higher than standard engine failure rate, I'm not buying that either. From what I gather, the warranty is good. FCA is stepping up when they need to be. Nowhere are we guaranteed the truck won't fail us. So what are we entitled to?

Don't take this as cheerleading. I don't claim anything is the greatest ever. I need way more then 45k miles on the clock to declare that. But I do think, given the nature of forums and social media today, that things are blown way out of proportion.

Just thinking out loud here.



Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G891A using Tapatalk

In my case FCA isn't stepping up to the plate!!!!!

 

[cs in Alabama]

Along the thread, I saw the "Insider Information" post when it came out and personally could not make heads nor tails of what it really meant. Through the contacts that I make from one or more of my jobs I have had the pleasure of speaking to several ED owners and none have had any catastrophic issues. Most recent was a utility sub contractor who drives his 15 ED in OK and TX rebuilding and maintaining electric transmission lines. He has suffered no ill manners and gets better fuel mileage than I do, jealous, and since I netted 26.5 mpg on recent trip to MO at 70 to 75mph he was doing good. I have talked to a General Contractor who has three ED's in his fleet, his newest a 2016 is his personal vehicle.
Vern must be doing good to pay for a pan drop on ATF every 100K that gets expensive. I will also agree on the trailer brake, the few times I have towed with the trailer brake it is so good it should go a long way toward brake mileage. I also carry a code reader in the truck.
On another note, but still in the thread, the Municipality that I work for has invested heavily in the Power Stroke brand and I recently learned that we are experiencing multiple Power Stroke failures. Blown head gaskets, spun rod and main bearings, grenaded engines, all in the newer SCT DPF models. Analysis from Equipment Maintenance Department, Selling Dealer, and Manufacturer, oil change mileage has been slashed in half, OA at oil change, driver training. It seems that starting motor cold, running full throttle for 4 to 6 minutes then half an hour idle with about 10 minutes normal city driving is not conducive to the Regen Cycle which has been loading up the system, overheating the exhaust and causing fuel wash down of the piston rings. The driver retraining may never take, as FD is emergency response, however we have begun starting each shift, day, with a leisure highway drive for about 20 minutes to allow exhaust system to catch up. This strategy has been adopted by another local authority in their 2017 Power Stroke Grass Rigs. Talk about cost!!! The Power Stroke long block with accessories cost more than an ICM series Cummings, and is now on Back Order!

They should have gotten gasoline engines.

 

[TC Diesel]

Buying Diesel Pickups for city municipal (Public Works) use will take 10 years to brake even on the additional cost (Diesel power plant) alone...

 

[EML]

Does anyone have information on why it is taking so long to get a replacement EcoDiesel engine? Spun the bearings on a 2015 Grand Cherokee on May 16 at 73k miles; FCA agreed to replace under warranty. In mid-June, with no replacement engines available, the issue was "escalated" to FCA Case Management, where as of July 9 they continue to say "due having the part upgraded to ensure priority we do not have a tentative ETA at the moment." Their lack of candor makes me think there are larger problems with the replacement engines other than a simple backlog.

 

[cs in Alabama]

Interesting. They have blown a lot of eco engines and it makes me wonder if they don't have any spares.

I wonder if you are getting a 2020 engine with a new harness.

 

[TC Diesel]

Its not likely 2020, the wiring and electronics are completely different and the New engine is for 2020 frame and Body.

 

[EML]

I had FCA Case Management on the phone today as they have not been responding to my emails. The rep said she had an update---they are going to try to get a different repair part. The original part they were going after was a *remanufactured* complete engine, now they are going to try to get a new complete engine (which I thought I would be getting all along). I am a little miffed that they were going the remanufactured route, and that they gave it 2.5 months before giving up and authorizing the new engine.

 

[cs in Alabama]

I had FCA Case Management on the phone today as they have not been responding to my emails. The rep said she had an update---they are going to try to get a different repair part. The original part they were going after was a *remanufactured* complete engine, now they are going to try to get a new complete engine (which I thought I would be getting all along). I am a little miffed that they were going the remanufactured route, and that they gave it 2.5 months before giving up and authorizing the new engine.

Darn! I just got that order 2.5 months ago! I was busy learning how to rebuild these engines and had watched some youtube videos and they pull the carpet out from under me!

Happy for you getting a new and not rebuilt engine. I had no idea FCA was rebuilding them but I don't know what else they can do now that they are out of production. Other than to give you a full refund or new truck, of course.

 

[carlhenry]

I sent ten e mails to a e mail box in Italy they weren't nice ones haven't heard a word back if Ford or Chevy people had all these problems they would b complaining to our people but these r ram people. on line criers

 

[EML]

I received an update today from FCA. The alternate repair part is not yet authorized; they have to get the OK from the local Jeep service manager, and he has been on vacation. I found out the part they originally ordered 2.5 months ago was a *short block.* The pending authorization is for a new complete engine. As oil with metal shavings flowed through the cylinder heads and turbo, why would the dealership order only a block (especially for warranty work?)? Were they trying to get more shop hours for their mechanics (a lot easier to pull/replace an engine than take it all apart, clean, rebuild on a short block)? The FCA rep is very tight with information; it is like pulling teeth to get a straight answer.

 

[TC Diesel]

EML, keep the info flowing...VM has been deceiving FCA IMO....

 

[carlhenry]

I have seen MANY ecgine blow ups this is the first one that I have seen with shavings that look like they came from a metal turning lade