I've had it 2 months, and it left me stranded today...

[SeanPwnery]

I bought my `16 9 weeks ago. About two weeks ago, I take my dad out for his 87th birthday for his usual beer and chili. When we leave the pub, the truck would crank over and over and over and not stop until I keyed it to the "off" position (imagine a runaway starter).

If I turned the key to ACC before start while waiting on the glow plug icon, I normally hear the electric pump squeal before twisting the key and firing up. This time, no bueno. I checked the fuse panel under the hood and someone ran a wire between a relay's 87 post to one of the posts coming off what I assume is a fuel pump fuse (it's the only mini fuse that's 30 amp in the entire panel). That wire shook loose, so I re-attached it, twisted the key and off we went. I was a little disturbed why my 6 year old truck would have such a rigged fix, but we got home and I didn't think much of it at the time.

Fast forward to today and I'm trying to leave work - and guess what? It's doing it again, but this time, the wire is fine, the relay was fine, and the fuse was fine too. No pump squeal at all this time - just runaway starter until I key completely off. I have no idea where to start now since the previous "fix" isn't working this go round. I found 12V keyed power on an accessory blade to the fuse block and tried sending 12v there rather than the relay it was attached to but still no dice.

Now I did buy an extended warranty, and I fully intend to use it - but I'm just curious if anyone's ever heard of anything like this? I can't send for a tow til Monday so I've got a couple days to speculate.

 

[SeanPwnery]

Okay, so I've had a few hours to calm down and think about this rationally, and it sounds like this problem is pretty common with a LOT of Mopars from 07 to 21.

There are lot of videos about TIPM fuel pump relay bypasses and the like - I'm guessing this is what the wire someone ran in mine must have been. I guess I'll be making an attempt to build a better wire harness and trying this. If you guys want a reference video to what I'm on about...

 

[SeanPwnery]

...so now after seeing this video a few times I've realized the TIPM on my 16 is laid out differently than this. I've written the creator of the video to ask if they are aware of this or if there's updated info for the later models. This absolutely sounds like the problem I've experienced twice now.

 

[1shadowsabre]

keep us posted.....the miracle of you tube!

 

[SeanPwnery]

Update : Well, I built the bypass harness yesterday and ran out to my truck at my shop this morning. Popped the cable on, still no fuel pump whine. Twist the key and it has a runaway crank as usual until I key it off (what I mean by this is I turn the key to start and let go so its in 'run' but the starter will continue to spin until I turn it to "off")

So the pump is definitely not getting power, or the pump itself decided to crap the bed. Either way, the PO's bypass wire was obviously stuck into "keyed 12v" on a different relay, but I removed it in place of my harness that went to a proper fuse-slot generally used for the cigarette lighter per the guide I found.

Thankfully, I purchased a service plan which supposedly covers everything, including towing with only a $100 dollar deductible so hopefully all I have to do is make the arrangements with the dealership service department, give them my coverage policy number and tell them where to pick up the truck and to not call me until it's ready to pick up. I don't need to know what's wrong with it before it's fixed - if I'm as covered as this package suggests - then they can tell me post-facto since it's already paid for.

I have to say, this is a real kick in the pants because I avoided Mopar for about 20 years knowing of their occasional electrical gremlins, but after FCA took over, and I purchased a 500 a few years back, it was a solid car - solid enough that I bought my old man a '14 300S which has been solid too. When it came to the truck ... 9 weeks is all I got before one popped up. Some guys just get all the luck. I took a gamble buying a 6-year old truck with 106k on the clock, but I wanted to put my money where my mouth was when I tell friends, family, and cohorts to ask me what they should buy, that these things are supposed to be solid and that diesel's aren't like gas cars where a 100k on the clock should be a concern.

I suppose there's a TIPM or a fuel pump, or both replaced in my near future.

If you'd like to see the source I used including pictures of the correct TIPM for the late model trucks like mine, you can find it here.

 

[1shadowsabre]

It sounds like the electrical gremlin you are experiencing was not caused by RAM but by a previous owner gerryrigging something.

 

[Stephen33]

There is another recall coming out to replace the fuel pump. Make sure you are registered with RAM Hq as the current owner

 

[SeanPwnery]

There is another recall coming out to replace the fuel pump. Make sure you are registered with RAM Hq as the current owner

As coincidence would have it, there was - recently issued but it's for the cam-driven high pressure pump. There's a 5 month backorder on it, but I told them to put me on the list. Truck's at the dealer now - they can't get into it for 3-4 days due to the backlog, but I made friends with the new lady service-writer they have who apparently owns one of these too. A funny conversation started with "be glad you don't have the DEF injector system on yours," to which I said "but I do" and she was like "oh... I'm sorry."

I asked her to expand on that, and she told me there were two years where they didn't have them installed and hers was one of them. Anyway, she seemed really eager to help and kept asking me if there was anything else they should look at since this is likely going to be covered with my 3rd party service package. I told her the battery seemed a little weak so she said she'll look into getting a new one put in there. So for now, my retro Tbird is back on daily duty til I hear back.

 

[SeanPwnery]

I damn-near had a heart-attack just now. I finally received word from the dealer about what's going on with my truck - they've had it for 2 weeks now.

This is what they dropped on me :

Our technician was able to identify the concerns with your check engine light. We were able to duplicate the vehicle will crank but not start. Upon inspection, the technician found the following while diagnosing the vehicle:

-DTCS P0183-00 Fuel Temperature Sensor Circuit High- Active
-P0001-00 Fuel Quantity Regulator 1 Control Circuit Open- Stored present in PCM
-Monitored Fuel Pressure at Fuel Rails in PCM Data and found No Fuel Rail Pressure Present while Cranking Engine
-Inspected Injection Pump and Removed Fuel Quality Solenoid – Found Excessive Rust on Screen.
-Removed Diesel Fuel Filter and Discovered Fuel Filter Expanded and broken inside as if Fuel Filter has never been replaced
-Fuel Filter has begun to breakdown and contaminate the Fuel System – Replacement of entire Fuel System is necessary to address concern.

Please see that attached pictures.

The following is a list of items to repair what we know is wrong at this time. After repairs, there may still be other items that were subsequently affected.

-1 Injection Pump
-6 Injectors
-6 Injector Crush Washers
-All High pressure Fuel Lines and Both Fuel Rails
-Fuel Filter Housing Assembly, Fuel Filter,
-Fuel Return Line Assembly
-2 Low Pressure Fuel Lines From Housing to Engine
-Drop and clean Fuel Tank
-Diesel Fuel and Additive
-8 Cab Body bolts (removal of cab to access fuel tank)
-1 Tank Lift Pump (internal pump for tank only)

Here is the initial estimate:


Labor $3,119.98

Parts - $10,830.67

Shop Supplies - $60.00

Tax - $893.53

TTL $14,904.18

This is the start of the repairs. The DPFE (basically the catalytic converter for a diesel), or other systems, may have sustained some damaged but we cannot pull codes for that system since the vehicle does not run. I wanted to send this to you because I am 99% sure the extended warranty will not cover this repair once I call them, since the failure was due to a overused fuel filter. Some parts may need to be ordered from out of town.

Want to talk about getting blind-sided just before Christmas? I bought this pre-owned from a non-manufacturer dealership, and I specifically asked for a service package to ensure I had no nightmare scenarios like this. I went in thinking I lost a fuel pump or relay, and ... well, wtf?

 

[ICF Guy]

I damn-near had a heart-attack just now. I finally received word from the dealer about what's going on with my truck - they've had it for 2 weeks now.

This is what they dropped on me :

Our technician was able to identify the concerns with your check engine light. We were able to duplicate the vehicle will crank but not start. Upon inspection, the technician found the following while diagnosing the vehicle:

-DTCS P0183-00 Fuel Temperature Sensor Circuit High- Active
-P0001-00 Fuel Quantity Regulator 1 Control Circuit Open- Stored present in PCM
-Monitored Fuel Pressure at Fuel Rails in PCM Data and found No Fuel Rail Pressure Present while Cranking Engine
-Inspected Injection Pump and Removed Fuel Quality Solenoid – Found Excessive Rust on Screen.
-Removed Diesel Fuel Filter and Discovered Fuel Filter Expanded and broken inside as if Fuel Filter has never been replaced
-Fuel Filter has begun to breakdown and contaminate the Fuel System – Replacement of entire Fuel System is necessary to address concern.

Please see that attached pictures.

The following is a list of items to repair what we know is wrong at this time. After repairs, there may still be other items that were subsequently affected.

-1 Injection Pump
-6 Injectors
-6 Injector Crush Washers
-All High pressure Fuel Lines and Both Fuel Rails
-Fuel Filter Housing Assembly, Fuel Filter,
-Fuel Return Line Assembly
-2 Low Pressure Fuel Lines From Housing to Engine
-Drop and clean Fuel Tank
-Diesel Fuel and Additive
-8 Cab Body bolts (removal of cab to access fuel tank)
-1 Tank Lift Pump (internal pump for tank only)

Here is the initial estimate:


Labor $3,119.98

Parts - $10,830.67

Shop Supplies - $60.00

Tax - $893.53

TTL $14,904.18

This is the start of the repairs. The DPFE (basically the catalytic converter for a diesel), or other systems, may have sustained some damaged but we cannot pull codes for that system since the vehicle does not run. I wanted to send this to you because I am 99% sure the extended warranty will not cover this repair once I call them, since the failure was due to a overused fuel filter. Some parts may need to be ordered from out of town.

Want to talk about getting blind-sided just before Christmas? I bought this pre-owned from a non-manufacturer dealership, and I specifically asked for a service package to ensure I had no nightmare scenarios like this. I went in thinking I lost a fuel pump or relay, and ... well, wtf?

I damn-near had a heart-attack just now. I finally received word from the dealer about what's going on with my truck - they've had it for 2 weeks now.

This is what they dropped on me :

Our technician was able to identify the concerns with your check engine light. We were able to duplicate the vehicle will crank but not start. Upon inspection, the technician found the following while diagnosing the vehicle:

-DTCS P0183-00 Fuel Temperature Sensor Circuit High- Active
-P0001-00 Fuel Quantity Regulator 1 Control Circuit Open- Stored present in PCM
-Monitored Fuel Pressure at Fuel Rails in PCM Data and found No Fuel Rail Pressure Present while Cranking Engine
-Inspected Injection Pump and Removed Fuel Quality Solenoid – Found Excessive Rust on Screen.
-Removed Diesel Fuel Filter and Discovered Fuel Filter Expanded and broken inside as if Fuel Filter has never been replaced
-Fuel Filter has begun to breakdown and contaminate the Fuel System – Replacement of entire Fuel System is necessary to address concern.

Please see that attached pictures.

The following is a list of items to repair what we know is wrong at this time. After repairs, there may still be other items that were subsequently affected.

-1 Injection Pump
-6 Injectors
-6 Injector Crush Washers
-All High pressure Fuel Lines and Both Fuel Rails
-Fuel Filter Housing Assembly, Fuel Filter,
-Fuel Return Line Assembly
-2 Low Pressure Fuel Lines From Housing to Engine
-Drop and clean Fuel Tank
-Diesel Fuel and Additive
-8 Cab Body bolts (removal of cab to access fuel tank)
-1 Tank Lift Pump (internal pump for tank only)

Here is the initial estimate:


Labor $3,119.98

Parts - $10,830.67

Shop Supplies - $60.00

Tax - $893.53

TTL $14,904.18

This is the start of the repairs. The DPFE (basically the catalytic converter for a diesel), or other systems, may have sustained some damaged but we cannot pull codes for that system since the vehicle does not run. I wanted to send this to you because I am 99% sure the extended warranty will not cover this repair once I call them, since the failure was due to a overused fuel filter. Some parts may need to be ordered from out of town.

Want to talk about getting blind-sided just before Christmas? I bought this pre-owned from a non-manufacturer dealership, and I specifically asked for a service package to ensure I had no nightmare scenarios like this. I went in thinking I lost a fuel pump or relay, and ... well, wtf?

It would probably be wise to request service records. They are usually available through Carfax or other such companies. That might give you an indication of how this all happened.

 

[Catfish]

I just received an e-mail for a recall on my 16 for "fuel pressure" issues. I called the dealer and the only info I got was that they're waiting on parts and would get back to me?

 

[Catfish]

I'm damn near having a heart attack just reding posts today, I love my truck, but crap! I did buy a 2yr. bumper to bumper warranty thank God! If something goes wrong, it seems that it will be at the shop for a while! Merry Christmas to all!

 

[ICF Guy]

It would probably be wise to request service records. They are usually available through Carfax or other such companies. That might give you an indication of how this all happened.

 

[SeanPwnery]

Small update : The fuel pump, filter housing, and filter were changed to the tune of $3,000+ dollars.

They told me just before New Years that it didn't solve the problem. They have yet to confirm if power is even getting to the pump since I took off the fuel pump relay bypass before taking it in hoping they'd find that and fix it properly. I'm still waiting to hear on that. I had to *remind* them about it, and that I removed it before bringing it to them because that's how I found it when I bought it.

They're insisting on charging me the full $14,800 dollars to fix it because they insist the entire system is not only contaminated, but the sole cause of the problem now which I think is absolute horse-s**t. I don't know how many times I told them I literally drove it the 14 miles to work with absolutely no fuel delivery or power issues, no cut-outs, no hesitations, etc.

At this point, I'm about to have to make the 3rd payment out of 72 on the truck - and I'm cutting my losses on this repair. If they continue to feed me insistence on a complete fuel system replacement that not only my warranty company refuses to cover, then I'm going to settle up with them, tow it home, and start looking for legal council. The problem is, I couldn't afford the 14k bill, and I certainly don't have the funds to hire out a lawyer and start down that path. 600 miles ... that's all I got out of it, and was completely blind-sided.

My neighbor has been a diesel and heavy equipment mechanic for over 30 years, and he said "Just pay them out for the 3k, and bring it to me, it might take a little while, but I'll get you sorted out and I'm right across the street from you." That's the route I'm going next.

 

[SeanPwnery]

Latest update : I cannot get the dealership to confirm or deny power to the pump - they seemingly ignore me telling them that I had removed the fuel pump relay bypass wire before it was sent over there (something I specifically, and repeatedly told them so they can find the fault and fix that as well). My confidence in this dealership is waning. They're insisting now that there is no fuel going to the rail (well... no s**t - no pump, no fuel to the rail, duh!). They continue to insist that the only fix at this point is the remainder of the entire fuel system to be replaced (including the high pressure pump on the passenger side head - a RECALL item they want to charge me for!!!). These are the same people that told me that they should be able to get me running with just the pump and filter housing which had the destroyed filter in it.

At this point, I'm considering just cutting my losses, paying out the $3000ish they've got into it so far and towing it home. Before I do this however, I was curious if anyone has a direct contact to somebody over at FCA. I'd like to discuss not only my problem with them, but the disturbing practices at the dealership I took it to. Trust was lost with them a while ago, but becoming more and more curious by the day. Back in '14 I worked with somebody at FCA twice on a Fiat I owned and it led to a nation-wide recall on the very problem I experienced. They were expeditious, and very helpful getting me back on the road and nothing came out of pocket. I since lost that contact info, so I'm hoping someone here has a success story and a contact they could share that I could try reaching out to.

 

[autoX]

Dealer priced the entire fuel delivery system start to finish. That's a sledgehammer approach and they can warranty and guarantee operation, book and handover to one of their techs and go at it, over say a couple of days, done deal.

Indie approach would hit the same equipment but inspect each part then go from there. Takes perhaps more labor and time in the shop to wait on parts. But that's what I would do. Intelligent work trumps the stupidity of blind parts replacement imo, which can be a waste of otherwise good parts.

The CP4 fuel pump replacements are not available yet for the recall, so you would have to pay for that or wait for the recalled parts release (I would think)

 

[Cbelt]

Accidentally filled mine with gas instead of diesel. It would crank forever and finally start. Ran fine after it started. Thought I had filled with bad gas. Dealer said I had filled it with straight gas. They wanted to replace the entire fuel system. I had them just drain the gas and add diesel. I had already replaced the fuel filter twice. It has ran fine since.

 

[autoX]

Engineer I know from out of country did the same thing. He saw the yellow pump and thought that's diesel. But here Shell has reg/bronze (yellow), mid/silver and super/gold pumps. He came to work with jerrys full of drained fuel that got added to the slop tanks. Anyway refill he was good to go.

The system circulates fuel in a loop so drain and refill works fine.