January 2020 Poll: Would you purchase your EcoDiesel again?

[BoostN]

I just saw the poll? Never got any notice on it. I would say no one on here knows it's here.

Oh it's here.. the title and the icon in the thread listing should give it away:

 

[GearHead]

I will comment that will heat things Up, My Guess it will be 55% would buy trucks again until 100K then its gone, 45% will buy again and keep.

Dag nab it. I guess the wife and I are in the minority, my RAM just turned over 117K and my wife's Jeep just turned over 145K!!
When we were at the dealership picking up my RAM after the DEF tank replacement a salesman asked my wife is she was interested in trading in and she replied "only if you can get me another diesel" the salesman didn't know that the Jeep had a diesel.

 

[GearHead]

Right now, it would mainly be a daily driver. I do tow a trailer sometimes when hauling firewood. I will occasionally tow a boat in the summer. I do want a cab over camper down the road, but I am not sure that would be this rig or the next. My original plan was to buy the 1/2 diesel now and in 5 years or so buy a 3/4 ton for the cab over camper. Right now, I tow fine with my 2002 Chevy Silverado with 236K miles on it.

You should be fine with the eco 1/2 ton, when I pulled our old Salem FSX toyhauler, about 6.5K lbs. loaded, I averaged 13mpg, we just traded to a heavier XLR toyhauler and in two weeks will take a shakedown trip and will see what the mileage is. Now for the disclaimer, I unknowingly bought a RAM with the 3.92 posi trak and I am running a GDE tune and I installed bypass oil filter and external oil cooler, so my towing experience will be different than someone with the stock 3.55 ratio differential. I did tow to Montana with the stock tune, pre AEM, and the truck lacked guts at altitude and grade. With that being said my sons 2014 Chevy Z71 nets 11 mpg towing his boat, a lot lighter than my FSX. But hey I hear yah, my 1995 Chevy Z71 is still in the driveway with 399K on the clock.

 

[TC Diesel]

When used for Hwy the 3.0 does OK, 117/145K is nothing for Dsl Power plants, 360K would be a good Target, some 3.0s have hit this , but is rare, NOT common like other Dsl Power plants.

My wife hated the 3.0 compared to the 5.7. I brought one home for Demo for a week see returned it herself. It was also a summit like Her 2018, This was before she knew about the Fires. To Quote My wife " Out of ALL the Vehicles you bring Home or have in your fleet You babysat that Eco more than all the others combined".

Gearhead either the salesmen lack of knowledge or that dealership does NOT sell that Many Jeeps with the 3.0.

HWY use or deleted the 3.0 Does OK, its the risk that ownership inherits with the 3.0.and the NEW 2020 is mechanically more complex's which increases the risk.

I would love to Post how well the 3.0VM is on DD/HWY, its easy to repair and maintain, repairs are rare, and Parts can be found at low cost, its just not the case with 3.0VM.

 

[TC Diesel]

I just don't see How this man (Mauro) can call this engine completely redesigned or the III 3rd gen Motor , I'm open to read correction on the Matter.

Some of Mauro Claims I challenge , the EGR More efficient? Cat develop similar systems back in 2010-12 and dropped them All. Cummins already has NONE external EGR development, This is the future of Dsl, and VM will need to compete or the 1/2 ton Dsl will disappear.

You are welcome to call Me a hater of VM, No I hate that VM has NOT step up and develop the NONE EGR technology, that's whats killing the VM 3.0. Look at deleted Motors these do well, Geez Mauro get off You Butt and fix the QC and the Emissions on the 3.0VM, If you going to talk like a Star you had better step up soon!!!! or Your Beloved 3.0VM is going to be Benched.

This was Cummins in 2016 they did NOT make the 2019 Target date, Rumor has it these New Gen V will be available ( On Road) in late 2020 early 2021.

 

[GearHead]

I just don't see How this man (Mauro) can call this engine completely redesigned or the III 3rd gen Motor , I'm open to read correction on the Matter.

Some of Mauro Claims I challenge , the EGR More efficient? Cat develop similar systems back in 2010-12 and dropped them All. Cummins already has NONE external EGR development, This is the future of Dsl, and VM will need to compete or the 1/2 ton Dsl will disappear.

You are welcome to call Me a hater of VM, No I hate that VM has NOT step up and develop the NONE EGR technology, that's whats killing the VM 3.0. Look at deleted Motors these do well, Geez Mauro get off You Butt and fix the QC and the Emissions on the 3.0VM, If you going to talk like a Star you had better step up soon!!!! or Your Beloved 3.0VM is going to be Benched.

This was Cummins in 2016 they did NOT make the 2019 Target date, Rumor has it these New Gen V will be available ( On Road) in late 2020 early 2021.

No problem TC, I too believe that non EGR is the future of Diesel engines. Although I do not blame FCA totally as I know the efforts that Cummins undertook to convince the EPA that the Mandated EGR was not needed. I also agree that lacking meaningful redesign that the VM motor will fall behind competing engines. But I do not deny the same issues that all the small diesels and some of the large diesels share with the VM in Daily Driver capacity. I also agree with GDE that the FCA fuel map engineering committee missed the fuel map market by a mile, resulting in more soot in the exhaust than what is needed.

Modern dealership salesmen I have found are very limited in their knowledge of product sold. Mostly the high profile muscle car, or the newest model, such as the Wrangler Truck. You pretty much have to explain to them why you want to buy this vehicle. I say that mainly because we bought my wife's Jeep at this dealership.

 

[TC Diesel]

Its like an act of congress to change the EPA's perceptions on EGR, We all know we'll how congress is acting lately.

If Kieth claims the tuning was No Good , He's most likely correct, The important question would be Why/How its so poorly tuned, IMO with VM its possible

I do think at some point VM will need to design New Power plants to survive.

 

[BendOregonECO]

I voted NO based mainly on the unknown future of my truck. I have experienced the acceleration lag a few times and have not had the AEM done yet nor have I entered into the settlement. I purchased my '16 Eco at 36k a year ago and am right at 60k. I worry about repairs on all aspects of the truck. Heated seats/steering wheel, passenger hub failed at 46K and required 9 weeks in the shop ending in a complete axle replacement (luckily all but ABS sensor covered under powertrain warranty) but mostly the when will it go and at what cost to me is what makes me concerned and the uncomfortable feeling of the lag happening, which should never happen, as it feels very unsettling and unsafe.

 

[GearHead]

Its like an act of congress to change the EPA's perceptions on EGR, We all know we'll how congress is acting lately.

If Kieth claims the tuning was No Good , He's most likely correct, The important question would be Why/How its so poorly tuned, IMO with VM its possible

I do think at some point VM will need to design New Power plants to survive.

Reminds me of the 305 SB Chevy, the first 5 years nothing but spun rod bearings and flat cams. GM changed cam profile, hardening process, material, 5 times in 5 years to no avail. Many warranty replacements. Clevite/Michigan 77 made the OEM bearings for this engine, a Clevite engineer teaching a bearing seminar informed us the cam bearing material for the 305 SB was a GM formula different from the identical 350 SB cam bearing which was a Clevite formula. Clevite notified GM at inception that their, Clevite, testing showed the material was too inferior to last, yet GM continued to use it. GM saved $.05 per bearing set to the tune of 250K engines per year, rolling the dice on warranty replacement, and killed the reputation of the 305 SB to the point that when they did change the bearing material they renamed the engine as the 5.0.

For a couple of years I had been rebuilding 305's installing 350 SB cam bearings not knowing that I was performing the recommended fix. I was also installing a 350 SB pattern camshaft which greatly improved performance.

Now can multiple component redesigns keep the VM engine up to the rest of the market or will a clean sheet redesign be the cure, only time will tell. There are a couple of issues with this engine that if a single engineer rather than a committee of engineers would work on a solution there may be a quick fix. But I do not see it as the committee think is to prevalent.

 

[Spritzer123]

I've owned this beast for under 6 months and blew the engine. Didn't work it at all. That's why I joined this forum. Loved the truck. Will take at least a month/$18,000 to get it back on the road. So honestly,,, at this point,,,, not again.

 

[My 12th DSL]

Love the truck. I bought my 2014 from the company I work for at the end of the lease 2.5 years ago with 176,000km on it. Now have over 268,000km. I drive 25 minutes each day to work, 85% highway. I tow a 9.3m travel trailer in summer that weighs 3000kg. Did the water pump and EGR clean last fall but nothing beyond normal maintenance. My truck (coil springs) rides better than my brother's 2019 Platinum F150.
I have been driving diesel pick ups since GM brought out the 350 in the late 70s. BTW I had 198,000km on my 1980 Sierra Classic when I sold it to my buddy who had over 350,000km on it when the engine started knocking. The key is not use a diesel engine for short trips or city commuting. Use them on highway and for towing where the engine gets fully up to operating temperature.

 

[BryanB]

I am new to the forum, but my 2 cents.... So far I love my truck. I purchased a 2016 Ram Tradesman last year (March 2019) with 27k miles on it. I have had the AEM done, and noticed little difference. I have towed from Virginia to Arkansas twice and I am up to 42K miles. I have had good luck to this point, and would recommend the truck to someone. I was specifically looking for a truck for hauling when needed around the house (light duty mulch ,trash, etc..), towing my open car trailer and car (around 5200lbs total) and a daily driver with decent fuel mileage. The truck has not disappointed, and it does a nice job pulling the car trailer. I did purchase a light weight travel trailer last fall and we are hoping to do some camping this year and more next year the trailer weighs about 5k lbs. but I don't have any info on how it pulls, other than bringing it home and that was only about 5 miles. BTW my truck has the 391 gears and is 4wd. Maybe this info will be of interest to others looking into buying a truck like this.

 

[Caveman]

My truck has left me stranded 11 times . Multiple issue with DEF , two alternators first at 73000 second 103000. Now blown motor at 105000km. Truck has been babied all highway driven. Proper cool down times for turbo to cool down after driving for an hour . Used block heater religiously, as well as bra on proper temperatures to keep engine running optimal. First new vechile ever bought . Have to take my son to children’s hospital for quarterly visits five hours away to children’s hospital and may need potential liver transplant 1500km away in future and I was diagnosed with MS almost 3 years ago after purchasing truck. Sorry a little off topic. Now they are telling me it’s going to be 19500$ for the fix.... I wish I had better things to say about my 16 ED but I would be terrified to purchase another one and any new truck/car at this point.

 

[TC Diesel]

Caveman Your not alone.

3.0VM Ownership have only three Options, One Upgrade to less parts, Two 80%+ Hwy Use in long term ownership. Three Save at least $8000.00 for likely repairs in long term ownership.

My 2019 5.7 Limited Mixed Hwy/City 720 miles on last two Tanks 13.7MPG, Diesel is $2.60PG / Gas $2.00.

That's 52.55 Gallons Gas @ $111.00, 3.0VM 52.5 at 17.1PM= 897.75 Miles 52.5 At $2.60PM Dsl= $136.50.

$25.50 divide by $2.00, 12.75 Gallons x 13.7= 174.67

897.75 -720= 177.75, Their was O Savings in fuel Cost Gas VS Dsl 3.0 in my last 720 Miles of driving mixed City/Hwy.

If your looking to Save $$$ Buy Gas, it will take 200K Miles+ of Hwy use to just brake even on the Fuel cost only? on the 3.0.

You will NOT re-coup the Dsl engine cost at selling/resale in 1/2 Trucks, The 3/4-1 Tons Dsl keep most of the Power plants upfront cost at resale.

The 3.0 is $5000.00 More than the 3.6 Gas, and $3,500.00 than the 5.7 Gas, It does NOT pencil to Own the 3.0 Unless you drive Hwy and Hope you never have a repair cost 200K miles or Less, and if you have repairs after the 200K Miles your back to the 3.0 Costing $$$ ownership.

 

[My 12th DSL]

TC, I agree 100% with your numbers on cost of ownership, that with the upfront higher cost for the engine and higher diesel fuel price the diesel does not make sense.

For me, this truck was worth buying. 1) I had the complete maintenance history. 2) I paid $20,000 for it. 3) I can deduct 70% of the cost of operating from my taxes.

 

[TC Diesel]

12th DSL ,$20K Canadian Very Good deal 2.5 Years ago, You also had known History, in your case You are saving money.

12th DSL it was a good Buy

 

[My 12th DSL]

TC,
An update on my 2014, check engine light came on last month. Took it to the dealer and they said there is a recall on my EGR, go figure. Parts not available and they didn't know when the parts will arrive. Charged me $78 to reset but must have done an update on it as there was now a throttle lag. So know I was driving a truck that could have left me hanging when pulling my RV. After looking at other used trucks that were available and the difference I would have to pay I started researching the delete. Found Lightspeed Innovations right here that do the deletes. CA$2200 later and I have a different truck. I should have done this when I first got it. Will be pulling my RV for the first time next weekend. Excited to see how it performs. Now have over 280K on the truck.

 

[GearHead]

Caveman Your not alone.

3.0VM Ownership have only three Options, One Upgrade to less parts, Two 80%+ Hwy Use in long term ownership. Three Save at least $8000.00 for likely repairs in long term ownership.

My 2019 5.7 Limited Mixed Hwy/City 720 miles on last two Tanks 13.7MPG, Diesel is $2.60PG / Gas $2.00.

That's 52.55 Gallons Gas @ $111.00, 3.0VM 52.5 at 17.1PM= 897.75 Miles 52.5 At $2.60PM Dsl= $136.50.

$25.50 divide by $2.00, 12.75 Gallons x 13.7= 174.67

897.75 -720= 177.75, Their was O Savings in fuel Cost Gas VS Dsl 3.0 in my last 720 Miles of driving mixed City/Hwy.

If your looking to Save $$$ Buy Gas, it will take 200K Miles+ of Hwy use to just brake even on the Fuel cost only? on the 3.0.

You will NOT re-coup the Dsl engine cost at selling/resale in 1/2 Trucks, The 3/4-1 Tons Dsl keep most of the Power plants upfront cost at resale.

The 3.0 is $5000.00 More than the 3.6 Gas, and $3,500.00 than the 5.7 Gas, It does NOT pencil to Own the 3.0 Unless you drive Hwy and Hope you never have a repair cost 200K miles or Less, and if you have repairs after the 200K Miles your back to the 3.0 Costing $$$ ownership.

TC I have looked and rewritten these numbers to try and completely understand your logic and I truthfully don't get it.

That being said the upfront option for 3.0 ED in a new truck is too high in my opinion, it does run the break even for cost of ownership way out on mileage.

Even when my 2014 was running the 1st version of the AEM my average mileage never dropped below 19 mpg, prior to AEM was 22 mpg, with my GDE tune my worst average was 22 and best 27. Now my cost per mile of fuel is how I calculate my cost for driving, you do the same from a different direction. I will allow that cost differentials also play a big roll in CPM comparisons of diesel vs. gas. In Oklahoma the highest differential was $.45 per gallon between diesel and E10, for non E10 I actually have seen lower cost for diesel. In today's market we have just a couple of cents difference. Diesel $1.78 gl. E10 $1.74 gl. to Diesel $1.85 gl, E10 $1.80 gl.

So in Jan. of this year with Diesel cost in OK from $2.38 to $2.55 gl my CPM equalled low of $.10 CPM, high $.11 CPM. That equates to low MPG of 22.04 and high MPG of 22.91. My wife's Jeep netting a low MPG of 23.9 and high MPG of 25.7 during same period gets low CPM of $.09 and high CPM of $.10. Of course that is on Winter Blend diesel.

In Feb. of this year, Diesel cost from $2.15 gl to $2.58 gl. CPM from $.10 to $.14.

In March of this year, Diesel cost from $2.69 gl. to $1.70 gl. CPM from $.09 to $.22 ( towing)

Skip to July this year, Diesel cost from $1.77 gl. to $1.99 gl. CPM from $.07 to $.16 ( towing)

Now I would have to go back a couple of years to pull up my 1995 Chevy Z71 but my recall is CPM between $.13 to @.14 on E10.

I will give you that other items of maintenance will alter your cost per mile of diesel or gas engines and I will give whole hearted support to your view that Daily Driver usage can and will spell disaster for this engine, but it also spells problems for all DEF system diesels. With the upfront option costs, ECM programing to get the well running vehicle you should have gotten in the beginning, your time of owner ship to break even gets longer. A potential owner needs to analyze all the aspects to determine if this engine package is appropriate for them. Driving style, vehicle usage, annual mileage, planned term of ownership, financing costs, all play a factor in that decision.

Many of these factors would have kept me out of a diesel. Like My 12th Diesel I purchased my 2014 as a two year old used vehicle, low mileage, more options than I wanted or needed, factory warranty remaining and with mechanical knowledge. My 2014 in the first two weeks of ownership had a Exhaust Emissions DTC which I confirmed a TSB from FCA before I every took it back to the dealer. My cost of purchase was similar to the same age Chevy Crew Cab Z71 LTZ so it was an easier decision. My biggest issue with my RAM has been the unacceptable delay with logistical support on replacement parts from FCA. I was notified of the EGR Cooler recall in April, after much media build up, yet my parts didn't show up until the first week of August. Install only took two days, as I expected.

A close friend just purchased a used, 2018, RAM and his Hemi performs well, loves the transmission as well as the space in the cab and ride quality.

 

[Mssmith11]

I've owned 2 ecodiesels, a 2015, which I traded in to upgrade to a 4x4, and now a 2018. First one only had 38k miles on it with no trouble. Now have a DEF issue on the 2018 and dealer doesn't have the parts and dragging their feet getting it fixed. I think I'll go back to GMC or back to a Hemi if I stay with Dodge.