K & N air filter

[1shadowsabre]

Not too big of a deal but is any one using a K & N air filter in the stock airbox?

 

[John Jensen]

Not sure what engine you have. Everything I have read reports that the Ecodiesel OEM system is very efficient and cannot be improved. They especially say to not use an oil type K&N filter as they do pass particles..
`
I say, leave it stock.

 

[Brokedownbutgood]

K&N air filters work well im the stock air box but I strongly recommend oil analysis. Lots of people service the filters incorrectly and cause them to not work correctly.

 

[jdn112011]

I ran one for a interval early in my ownership but didn't notice any difference. It went on the shelf and I've Used paper ever since. I think if a person went to a reusable then the aem dry would be the way to go. Just my 2¢

 

[podhauler]

I have seen too many problems with various vehicles using K&N air filters. Oil particles end up on MAF sensors and coating the inlet tubes with a film of oil, and unfortunately, also a lot of dust. I would not advise.

 

[BoostN]

I've always liked S&B myself.

 

[Jonsthasn]

I have 70K miles using a K&N reusable air filter. No problems to report.


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[GearHead]

I have seen too many problems with various vehicles using K&N air filters. Oil particles end up on MAF sensors and coating the inlet tubes with a film of oil, and unfortunately, also a lot of dust. I would not advise.

I have run K&N air filters on my Pro Dirt Track motorcycles since 1975 with no increase in dirt ingestion, in all types of track conditions. I have run K&N air filter in my stock air intake on my 1995 Chevy Z7, presently 399K miles, original drive train, with no increase in dirt ingestion. Ran K&N air filter in my 1975 one ton Chevy transport van, over 500K miles, with no increase in dirt ingestion. Have run K&N in all my wife's automobiles in the stock air boxes, with no issues. I have a K&N air filter in my RAM in the stock air box and Oil Analysis with no indicated increase in dirt ingestion. I have installed a K&N air filter and Cabin Air Filter in my wife's Jeep GC eco and have Oil Analysis from paper element to K&N with no indication of increase in dirt ingestion.

I have no issue with recommend a oiled cloth style air filter, such as K&N, with the caveat of Proper Cleaning process, I have seen improper cleaning, damage the filter matrix itself and once it is reinstalled there is an increase in dirt ingestion. I have installed a K&N air filter product in hundreds of customers high performance motorcycle, cars, and trucks, again with proper cleaning instructions with no negative feedback.

 

[John Jensen]

GearHead,

That's good that you have had no problems with oil filters. I guess the point is that for the Ecodiesel, they offer no advantage over the stock paper filter. So why pay more and have the hassle of cleaning and oiling properly, etc. for no reason. I once used K&Ns in my Ford trucks and my off-road motorcycles and quite honestly, they were a messy, labor-intensive, pain in the ass. Removing a dirty paper filter and replacing it with new is much simpler, easier and takes far less time.
Cheers!

 

[carlhenry]

I have heard that fmc will void your warranty for using k&n filters since every one worries about their warrenty

 

[GearHead]

GearHead,

That's good that you have had no problems with oil filters. I guess the point is that for the Ecodiesel, they offer no advantage over the stock paper filter. So why pay more and have the hassle of cleaning and oiling properly, etc. for no reason. I once used K&Ns in my Ford trucks and my off-road motorcycles and quite honestly, they were a messy, labor-intensive, pain in the ass. Removing a dirty paper filter and replacing it with new is much simpler, easier and takes far less time.
Cheers!

John:
I just work it into my oil change routine, take air filter out first, clean, leave to drip dry, change oil and oil filter, re-oil air filter and re-install. With our trucks the oil drain is a minimum of 30 minutes so leaves time to air dry, do not use compressed air unless it is at reduced pressure. All present motorcycle filters are now some type of oiled element so no difference, paper elements ended in the early 80's. I pay more one time, not every 10K miles. With my wife running about 1K miles a month and my truck running over 1K miles a month the K&N's paid for themselves in four oil changes in each vehicle. Everything is a compromise.

 

[John Jensen]

Gearhead,
Sounds like you are dialed in for your situation. I'm at the opposite end of the stick, low miles and lazy old age

 

[Ronald Doupe]

Not sure what engine you have. Everything I have read reports that the Ecodiesel OEM system is very efficient and cannot be improved. They especially say to not use an oil type K&N filter as they do pass particles..
`
I say, leave it stock.

Agree with John 100%

 

[1shadowsabre]

Agree with John 100%

Who are "they"?

 

[John Jensen]

Who are "they"?

"They" are the filter tests that I've read about on forums and elsewhere.
Do a search, Google it, there's lots of data about K&N and other oil filters passing dirt.

GDE (Green Diesel Engineering) said:
"We do not recommend K&N style filtration on a turbocharged engine.
The hi-flow filters do have less pressure drop, but they let larger particles through the media.
These particles can reduce turbo compressor life over time.
Naturally aspirated engines can eat the larger particles without major issues.
The stock airbox is more than adequate for the Ecodiesel."

 

[carlhenry]

use the factory filter k%n is junk as far as I am concerned

 

[1shadowsabre]

Just for the sake of friendly conversation it would appear that most/all the negative information came from something called the largely debunked and unscientific "spicer" report. I would say anyone can safely run a k & n filter in their rig with no warranty issues or adverse effects.
In fact many people do not only in their personal vehicles but fleet vehicles too!

 

[John Jensen]

Just for the sake of friendly conversation it would appear that most/all the negative information came from something called the largely debunked and unscientific "spicer" report. I would say anyone can safely run a k & n filter in their rig with no warranty issues or adverse effects.
In fact many people do not only in their personal vehicles but fleet vehicles too!

Just for the sake of friendly conversation, I can assure you that if you go to a Ram dealer with a K&N filter installed and have problems related to the air intake they will not fix it under warranty.

And regardless of any "debunking", I believe GDE when they say "The hi-flow filters (referring to oil filters) do have less pressure drop, but they let larger particles through the media. These particles can reduce turbo compressor life over time."
.
"

 

[GearHead]

Just for the sake of friendly conversation, I can assure you that if you go to a Ram dealer with a K&N filter installed and have problems related to the air intake they will not fix it under warranty.

And regardless of any "debunking", I believe GDE when they say "The hi-flow filters (referring to oil filters) do have less pressure drop, but they let larger particles through the media. These particles can reduce turbo compressor life over time."
.
"

Well, having read most if not all of the, not quite referenced but inferred, "studies" and having experience in the automotive additives testing wars from the 70's as well as my experience in the collegial atmosphere. Whenever your read a report or study from a scientific source you may note no highlighting, no emphasis such as color, italics, caps, will be present. So having seen subjective, meant to prove their point, and non-subjective testing, to see what is happening, I would feel very comfortable stating that the best paper air filter element will show approximately 99.57% efficiency as an overall rating and that a K&N oiled media air filter will a show approximately 98.74% for an overall efficiency, a difference of .83%, after dirt loading. Now that is the best paper element, if you review the poorer performing paper elements you will find that the K&N out performs the lower quality paper elements by several factors. What is most telling is the fact that Mr. Spicer after witnessing a ISO 5011 test and the explanation of "constant flow" vs. "variable flow" result effects, which exceeded his testing results, he still wrote an article holding to his subjective view. Now that being said I have read and studied many of Mr. Spicer's reports, and as with many of my peers I agree and disagree with his results and try to make informed decisions.

As a statement "they (oiled cloth media filters) let larger particles through the media" is problematic at best and incorrect at worst. Based upon testing results and design features. I read the statement on Geno's Garage when they removed K&N and other oiled media filters from their product offering and balance that with the preeminent diesel authority Gale Banks who added them to his product offering. Bank's Power builds our eco diesel and the Duramax for DOD use in much higher hp and torque output, so I may add some bias of his actions to my decision making.

Now with that being said my engine experience with high air flow in high dust atmospheres include "cyclone filters", dual foam and oiled media and paper, as well as hybrids of these. The "cyclone" comprises a swirl chamber to attempt to remove large particulate matter through centrifugal force, then air is channeled to a large filter element, normally paper, but I have seen oiled media used, which requires servicing after a certain number of hours of engine operation. This servicing can include replacement, tapping the larger particulate from the element, to back pressure air flow at low pressure. These filters are huge and flow at cfm's that we will never see. These same type systems are used in smaller size and slightly different designs in stationary engines and heavy duty earth movers smaller air volume with appropriate time frames and engine air intake restriction meters installed for instant viewing. The swirl or "cyclonic" chambers are designed to pull the larger particulate out of the air stream, efficiency varies with design, the large particulate normally just stays in suspension or is trapped in a separate chamber, the best drop the dirt when the engine is off. I have seen the standard commercial air filter in paper and oiled media, as well as a hybrid with a oil bath at the bottom of a paper element box. Those are the extreme.

As a overall performance I will take the subjective linear performance of the K&N over the quality control of the individual paper element manufacturers.

If you or anyone else wishes to use a paper element I would recommend that they purchase only the highest quality paper element and not purchase on price point only.

As a personal choice I would utilize the stock air filter box and tubing, I find as I get older that the perceived pleasure of hearing the internal and external machinations is overrated. So for noise level leave it stock. For true cold air, leave it stock. For intake air filtration use the highest quality product that you are satisfied with.

 

[carlhenry]

that deserves a AMEN...