REGENS, how to tell??

[jdn112011]

I've got mixed towing on mine, 8' enclosed 1k miles 16' ta enclosed 1500miles and about 1000miles towing car haulers with another vehicle. For significant towing anyways. I shied away from the towing best I could in favor of general payload because I hate pulling an empty trailer. I usually end up a little over 3000# when I take my trip back from St Paul to Roseau which is about 375 miles. If anyone knows Minnesota it's not exactly flat terrain. No mountainous regions but PITA hills in the lakes regions that I go through.

Also hence why I got a deal on a Leer 122 high rise topper. ($300 off a dealership trade in from someone that went from a power wagon to a ED) which helps my freight situation. Also didn't drop my mileage hardly at all. Maybe 1MPG

 

[jdn112011]

I've got mixed towing on mine, 8' enclosed 1k miles 16' ta enclosed 1500miles and about 1000miles towing car haulers with another vehicle. For significant towing anyways. I shied away from the towing best I could in favor of general payload because I hate pulling an empty trailer. I usually end up a little over 3000# when I take my trip back from St Paul to Roseau which is about 375 miles. If anyone knows Minnesota it's not exactly flat terrain. No mountainous regions but PITA hills in the lakes regions that I go through.

Also hence why I got a deal on a Leer 122 high rise topper. ($300 off a dealership trade in from someone that went from a power wagon to a ED) which helps my freight situation. Also didn't drop my mileage hardly at all. Maybe 1MPG

So in Canadian ey' is it a 3meter enclosed 2,000km a 5meter ta enclosed 3,000km etc etc?

No hard feelings just got a laugh from the US translation comment earlier

 

[jdn112011]

Good to know, hopefully I never see an EVIC message and have to experience fuel economy or continues dings.

I'm getting around 9 to 10 km in my city driving. Most of my highway is towing (5k weight), but I did hit for short period 8.9 litre per km. Another driver said 8.4 km. My Ram truck, life mileage for 10K is 25 miles per imperial gallon so far.

You need to convert to US gallons for US members. Canada Eh? Sorry...

The most accurate figures. (Life mileage) Total all your fuel and divide by your total mileage. I even keep ownership cost too in my database.

Fuel economy is way better than my Highlander (which I sold recently) and I didn't tow that much with it (2k weight). For now, I'm saying it is for sure equal in fuel economy.

So far, I'm impressed and for now, it nice to fill up when diesel is 20 cents per litre cheaper than gas, but I expect that can change during winter or not. My hybrid Camry is averaging 6.0 to 6.5 km per litre

Weight are you using Kg or Lbs? Just to give a clearer picture

 

[seiko]

Unfortunately, I am at the stage where I think in three system. Metric, UK Imperial and US systems. It does reflect in my replies. LOL. Also forget that this forum is not in Canada.

My Camping trailer is 5000 pounds that I tow with the RAM and the other is about 2000 Lbs that I towed with the highlander.

Highlander is sold. Not using utility trailer anymore at this time.

On some of those long and steep roads in the mountains, that where I see 3000 to 3500 RPM, using cruise control when towing the 5k pound trailer. A great portion of my driving has been trailer towing, the rest city driving in Calgary, so 25 mpg imperial is excellent.

That should equate to 21 US gallons, 11 KM/per 100km or 8.8 K per litre. About 16 diesel fill up so far, with average price 0.975 per litre. Fuel cost is averaging 0.12 per km.

Eh? No wonder we are so confused at times. Sorry.....

 

[Connie]

So guys, I have a dumb question. How do I tell when my ED is in a regen??I have about 3800 miles on it and have had a smell of burning hair or some such thing, once or twice but dont know if that how i tell its in Regen or not. Any ideas??
thnx

along with all the other info written my other posts.. .. I posted on another thread that I bought a cts2 insight EDGE so I could see the regen process however not to totally repeat myself the unit has to be upgraded on a PC for me to get the gauges to show the heat build up that will indicate a regen..I have a mac.. so I am sending the Edge back for several reason... altho the Edge for ECO d will do a forced regen if you think you need it.. but the truck should do it when it thinks it needs it.. I now can tell when I am having a regen.. I do alot of in town driving..on one outside drive.. a 15 min trip outside of town.. I smelled something strange and didn't know what the heck it was.. thought I was going thru a very stinky area or something.. but since that mostly when on the highway I smell the same strange smell and sort of associaate with what should be my trucks timing for a regen.. when I smell a certain smell it is not exhaust or a buring smell just something you don't normally smell.. it figure I have gone thru a passive regen.. and since they seem to happen about 20 min after I hit the highway at high speed I assume my truck is taking care of business.. I did have one regen in town.. again the smell tells me what is going on.. I have less then 3000 miles on the truck so I should have not needed to have to many.. since most of us are wanting to know when regen happens Ram should just put a gauge in showing a passive one.. or add the exhaust temp to the panel with the temps.. I think other larger diesel engines have better electronics to show a regen.. Ram probally didn't think us smaller truck diesel people would know or even care about when the truck cleans its exhaust.. lessons learned for RAM I want to know everything .. even when my injectors are firing and how well... but for the truck we are going to have to wait for the aftermarkert to come up with more complete monitors and electronics.. since the once for the bigger diesels don't work on our yet!! Personally I would like to tell the passenger in the truck.. hey the truck is having a regen.. and have them look at me like I am nuts..

 

[seiko]

Regarding updating the Edge, no problem if you are a mac user only, which is what I am. I just used VMware Fusion on my Macbook Pro (1 year old unit, using El Capitan OS), with windows installed. No problem updating the unit. Worked without a hitch. (REGEN Distance PID has been removed by Chrysler, non issue)

I'm not experiencing any fumes, nor can I tell that REGEN is occurring. (Passive Regen). I never had active regen, as my soot never reaches 80 percent level. So, I don't hear a ding and if there are any other indicators. I'm at 11000 km.

FYI: I posted this info on the other thread....
Who's running a tune

 

[dakarm34]

It's there a pump that pushes the DEF that can be wired to a light? That way you have a basic indicator that the DEF is being pumped? Sorry I'm new to this truck and I too want to know what's going on and not hurt my Eco.

 

[Mharrison]

Def will be being pumped at all times. It is only the DPF system which is a separate catalyst that is intermittent

 

[Connie]

Regarding updating the Edge, no problem if you are a mac user only, which is what I am. I just used VMware Fusion on my Macbook Pro (1 year old unit, using El Capitan OS), with windows installed. No problem updating the unit. Worked without a hitch. (REGEN Distance PID has been removed by Chrysler, non issue)

I'm not experiencing any fumes, nor can I tell that REGEN is occurring. (Passive Regen). I never had active regen, as my soot never reaches 80 percent level. So, I don't hear a ding and if there are any other indicators. I'm at 11000 km.

FYI: I posted this info on the other thread....
Who's running a tune

Thanks I have an older mac book pro but I just upgraded to El Capitan.. I will check out VMware fusion.. I was talking to another guy and he really likes the edge and said that if I give it time and learn it better with the upgrade I might have a better opinion on it and the amount of $ i dropped to buy it.. plus if I decide to get put in the GDE tune he liked his for showing the boost and the temp and other stuff it does .. along with the option to manual regen.. he likes the option to manual regen because of the city driving he does.. I was told the the GDE will extend the regen to more miles... because when you drive city our truck is programmd to regen possible every 150 to 200 miles.. so now in my pursuit to find the tune I think is best for me.. I am going to research the ppei today.. but I had a few great guys respond to my PMs about the GDE tune and I am leaning towards that one.. since I became a member you have always answerd my threads and your comments have helped me alot .. thanks for taking the time to respond SEIKO

 

[seiko]

When we help each other, we both benefit. Glad to help.

You can also use boot camp, and create a window partition. You would need a copy/license of Window 7, but won't need VMware fusion or Parallel. Parallel is another program like VMware fusion. The advantage of using VMware Fusion, you can run it using an image and still use your Mac OS X. You can then run Window and Mac and Linux all at the same time, even several version of Windows, like XP Pro (which is my favourite)

REGEN in city driving run about 90 km between REGEN, on the highway I get over 200 km between REGEN. I don't notice REGEN while driving, unless my Edge Insight CS2 alerts me. DEF is very cheap and you will be helping the environment. I'm at 11000 KM and my DEF is about 40 percent full.

I have concluded, that I don't need to monitor REGEN.

It is possible to shut off the engine during REGEN, if so, you will get a smell (Diesel Pee), however, if you let it idle for a minute or two, it will cool down and REGEN will stop and no smell will occur.

My current concern is EGT1 and EGT 2 temperatures, when towing I can get temperatures of 1500 F. That concerns me, so I monitor and set alerts.

My concern about tunes, does it drive the temperatures higher when towing in the mountains, pushing RPM of 3000 to 3500, if so, I get engine failure for sure. Also, FCA can void your warranty, by claiming you exceeded the capacity/parameters of the truck.

Does the truck EcoDiesel have the capacity to handle and cool down temperatures, so that at no time (even when temperatures outside is 100 F or climbing for long period (The Cummings can handle it, I think)) it doesn't climb pass 1500 degrees F. I don't know and until I find out, I avoid putting the truck in that situation.

I like my sleep, not having to worry or get involved in a cat and mouse game. My 2 Canadian penny worth 1 US penny.

 

[Connie]

looks like I am going to upgrade my knowledge of window parttiton ext.. I use to be so up on all the stuff.. VMware Fusion is something I have to look up and read about... learn yet something else LOL.. in a another life I used do a visual image program and auto/landcadd all windows based.. and was going to install windows to this mac. I also have a graveyard of PCs laying around...that either got outdated, slow or just crap out..and the current one...I have about 2 months ago also broke.. and I either have to re boot, or just buy another.. it seem PC has become disposable because to have them fixed cost more then to buy .. at least the cheaper ones.. after converting to Mac I will only buy a cheap PC if needed.. I have been under the weather and haven't tried to upgrade the Edge.. it is going to get cold here so I might check up working this mac to run windows.. I think I could use my broken pc license for windows.. I might have to talk to you about that stuff separate beyond this forum..

On the tune.. I don't tow super heavy alot and if I do I used my 2500 ram v10 it is older 2003 but tough.. I know that the GDE tune has an add on for towing and engine braking.. which seems over kill for a 1500.. a think a serious hauler would invest in a larger truck.. my 1500 does what I need.. I am lucky and retired early so my towing would an RV.. if I decide to travel that way and not fly places..

I also think about the piece of mind of not having to worry about FCA voiding the warranty .. which hopefully I will never need because I hope I have one of the trucks that don't have issues LOL.It's just that when you read so much about items that could make your truck better it makes you want to try it out.. I at times think that if the ecm programming isn't all that great then why wouldn't the company of changed it... however there is always the opposite thought of they can't all be wrong. .. if so many people are changing out their ecm... and there is 50 ways to do things right and only one way to do it wrong

But in my work when I did work.. we had to follow so many procedures.. and I would always question the way things were done and why.. and I found my own ways of doing things faster and better.. and at times these stead fast procedures were re written... so I look at the engineering in the truck and think when it was being built and the engineering was in place it worked.. but there is always a better way.. so I look at what I have learned hangin out here and in the groups on facebook along with a lot of reading and I think there is a plus side to re programing the way the truck works.. it seem like the "tune" is a way of tweeking what is already good but can be better.. all Car companies are here to make money.. and they will find what they can to not fullfill the warranty.. even if what ever might go wrong has nothing to do with the ecm being replaced..

jdn112011 comments in the original thread is quite good.. on one of the main pages where we started talking about tuning... also many of the items I read about liking the GDE are from the Canadian side.. as BoostN said tho to me if I am so worried about being dead in the water.. keep the core.. if I get engine failure before taking the truck in change out the ecm.. and let the service department never know the difference.. I guess I am impressionable.. I see all tose pics of soot built up.and the comparisons . I don't work on my stuff.. if I could I would be cleaning the engine and looking at the filters and exhaust working all the time.. so if the GDE tune will help with the main thing that can lessen the life of the engine that is what matters to me.. but I am right back where I have started to tune or not to tune LOL..

 

[seiko]

Not sure what quality of material is used in the engine and components. Here is the melting point of some of the metals. However, it will fail before melting.

Cast Iron 2200 F
Steel 2500 F
Wrought Iron 2700 F

 

[jdn112011]

It's your exhaust system that's seeing those temps though which I'm sure the filter is most likely a ceramic like a catalytic converter would be and stainless steel. Ceramic or whatever the compound filter inside is likely what holds so much heat. I'm honestly not worried about it at all but that's just me

 

[seiko]

The reason why I am concern about EGT Temperatures, it because of these type of articles. I don't seem to find contrary info so far. It is a good read. Recommend we all read this...

A powerful engine will create heat-there's just no way around it. In the diesel segment, we measure the heat created by combustion in the form of exhaust gas temperature, or EGT for short. Why is EGT important? Because if your in-cylinder temperatures get too hot, you can melt pistons, crack heads, destroy turbos, and create general havoc within your engine. A diesel needs a certain amount of heat to run, but high EGT should definitely be avoided.

How hot is too hot? We get this all the time, and unfortunately, there's no easy answer. When diesel fuel is sprayed into the combustion chamber, it is ignited by intake air that has been compressed and can reach more than 900 degrees Fahrenheit. When the diesel ignites, it can create a flame front of more than 4,000 degrees Fahrenheit. The superheated flame front heats the air around it and creates high cylinder pressures (almost 3,000 psi in some cases) and temperatures (more than 2,000 degrees). This pressure and temperature rise is what pushes the piston down, creating horsepower and torque. One important thing to remember is that although this process occurs very quickly in a diesel engine, the slow-burning properties of diesel fuel keep the fuel burning for up to 40 degrees of the crankshaft's rotation, also known as crank angle.

Where Does The Heat Come From?
During the engine's power stroke, energy from the fuel's combustion pushes the piston down. But not all of the energy released from the fuel is converted into work. The unused energy becomes heat, some of which is absorbed by the pistons, cylinder walls, and cylinder head(s). The rest of the exhaust heat gets forced out of the engine during the exhaust stroke-and this heat is what we read with our EGT probe mounted in the exhaust manifold. The exhaust heat temperature that we read on our EGT gauge will theoretically always be less than the peak in-cylinder temperature. However, it is also possible that the exhaust gas temperature at the EGT probe will be more than the sustained in-cylinder temperature, especially if the engine has radical fuel tuning. This false reading can be caused by excess fuel igniting in the exhaust manifold, which creates a secondary combustion event. Either way, high exhaust gas temperatures put the engine, exhaust valves, and turbochargers under a tremendous amount of strain and can lead to component failure. This is why we monitor EGT-to keep things from melting, cracking, and breaking.

How Hot Is Too Hot?
Based on our own experience in the sled pulling and drag racing world, we can definitely say that any engine running at 1,800 to 2,000 degrees EGT for more than a second or two should be rebuilt every season and may incur turbocharger, cylinder head, or piston damage during the season. It's just too much to ask a diesel to run at those types of temperatures. For towing, we'd say 1,200 degrees is a safe number, with occasional spikes of up to 1,400 degrees when climbing grades being an acceptable risk. The concept of EGT is analogous to putting something in the oven. You can put your hand in a hot oven for a second or two, and nothing will happen. Leave it in there, and you'll get burned. The same thing happens in a diesel engine. The longer the engine spends at a high EGT, the more likely it is to become damaged.

How Do I Control EGT?
So you may be asking yourself, if high EGT is such a harmful thing, why doesn't everybody make their engine run between 1,200 and 1,400 degrees? The simplest explanation is that it starts to get expensive to try and keep a powerful engine cooled down. Adding fuel is the most common way of achieving more power in a diesel engine, and this excess fuel creates heat. It can be controlled through a combination of larger turbochargers, aftermarket intercoolers, and water injection, but those parts can cost thousands of dollars. For most people, it's easier to just buy a programmer or injectors and live with the high EGT levels. However, living with superheated EGT levels isn't a solution-it's just putting off the problem. Sooner or later the stress on the engine will start to show, so it's best to keep your EGT low, reduce exhaust drive pressure as much as possible, and go easy on the injection timing. We have a self-imposed limit of 1,600 degrees while racing, and 1,200 degrees while towing. Any higher than that, and we'll look to water injection, intercooling, nitrous, or using less throttle to cool things down.

Competition EGT: What the experts say
Exhaust gas temperature is a funny thing. We've seen engines hurt parts at 1,400 degrees, while others will live at 2,000 degrees. In common-rail engines especially, EGT will only tell you part of the story. Since it's very expensive to measure peak cylinder temperatures and pressures, we don't know exactly what's happening during the injection event. A lot of timing and injector pulse width could create a very hot condition for the piston, but since most of the energy will be used up, the EGT reading may not be that high-even though we may be doing possible engine damage. A stand-alone computer system in which all the injection parameters can be changed and modified would be a big help in making tremendous amounts of safe power with the newer, high-pressure injection common-rail engines.

Competition EGT: What the experts say
We have a lot of 2.8 and 3.0 Class sled pullers that can't use water injection and run in the 1,000hp range. With a good intercooler, we're still able to keep the EGT less than 1,600 degrees during the pull. There is really no reason to run any hotter than that-you'll just be harder on parts. With high-pressure water injection, we can put our EGT level wherever we want. We can take an 1,800hp Modified Class pulling engine that would see 3,000 degrees without water and reduce the EGT to 1,400 degrees.

While large turbochargers will flow more air and help reduce EGT, one can only go so large. Here is a comparison between the 60mm compressor upgrade used on Project Rust Bucket, and the 95mm secondary turbo on Erick Brown's 4,000-rpm common-rail. Most trucks would be hard-pressed to even spool a turbocharger this big.

We've spent a lot of time talking about high EGT, but what about low EGT? Shutting a hot engine off can lead to oil burning, which leaves carbon deposits (called coking) behind. Make sure your EGT gauge reads less than 400 degrees Fahrenheit before you click it off.

 

[jdn112011]

You're right it's a good read. Hope others see this!

 

[seiko]

When towing my Trailer (5000 pounds) in the Rockies (Banff, Yoho, Jasper), going 90-110 KM per hour, using Cruise control and RPM 3000-3500, My EGT 1 and EGT 2 will spike to 1500 F. I get an alarm from my Edge Insight 2 CS Monitor. (Factory Default Setting). For now, I will be cautious, will back off, until I can get substantiated facts.

One reason why I am cautious about Tunes or modifying PID (Increasing Fuel, increases Temperatures) and might explain why some people may have major engine failures, drop in oil pressure, etc. It also may indicate that FCA has not provided adequate cooling system. If that can be shown, they may fix it under warranty.

I think the engine and transmission are great, it may be that all those pollution measures have a negative effect and instead of longevity prior 2005, now, 2006 onward, has a shorter engine life span. Hope not, especially if you want to keep it for a long time.

Ford Eco boost seems to have proper capacity for cooling, as per my two boys (each have Ford Eco boost, 2014, 2015) who never see that type of heat, even to touch. As marketing thing, there is a picture of a CEO kissing the engine after a hot drive. LOL

There is something about the Ram EcoDiesel, that I enjoy driving, quiet, great power, acceleration and great fuel economy. I'm at 11,000 km, so far, excellent.

 

[jdn112011]

That's because diesel Burns hotter and longer than gasoline.

The Ecodiesel is a higher temperature and totally different dynamic engine than the Ecoboost. Hence why your kids never see those temps.

 

[Connie]

great posts.. make alot of technical sense.... it also give some reason as the why people might have issues.. who have a tune.. I have followed many you tube and group people who have raved about their truck.. did all sorts of changes... videoed them on Youtube.. and but when their truck screws up all of a sudden the ECO D suck.. FCA sucks. Changing out stock options some times can do a good thing however from the engineering points of how a truck is put together.. in what you posted also shows why staying stock can be a good thing.. I still haven't decided if I want to use a GDE tune.. my truck is young I think I only hit 3000 miles.. and I have asked the questions of why change what doesn't seem broke... buy using a tune.. and then I know there is always something better too.. so the explanation of heat make total sense.. where a tune is set on increasing horsepower and performance those 2 things will cause heat.. and the GDE tune doesn't say much about how it changes the trucks programming to address heat...even tho their tune is really just suppose to help the truck run better..many other tune products radically change the performance and would increase the heat factors not to mention changing out the exhaust systems.. I would not want to mess with my trucks exhaust all and it is amazing that that much heat does build up in such a small area.. I worked in Nuclear plants from most of my career and heat along with fluid erosion is the biggest upkeep process large scale so our engines take alot of daily abuse just by normal driving.. I think it is sort of amazing what technology has come to do.... . SEIKO your posts always show good info and thought.

 

[jdn112011]

The reference about too much fuel and not being burned off until reaching the exhaust is more so in reference to piggyback tunes like banks where they are only increasing fuel rail pressures to provide excess fuel and in turn power. That's when there is secondary combustion after the cylinder. Too much fuel. Though GDE may alter fuel rail pressures as well if they do I would not think it as extreme as a piggyback tune would

 

[jdn112011]

But that's because GDE actually took the time to understand mechanical limitations of the motor for power. The Turbo is too small for significant gains. Hence why their focus is clean economical and well sounded with slight power and mileage gains vs advertising huge power gains they cannot deliver.