The Facts on the DOJ lawsuit ,EPA Complaint.

[TC Diesel]

The behavior of FCA in this matter continues to be ongoing. and look closely at FCA behavior anyone has to questioned the liability and Integrity of the corporate Management.... You can argue that FCA did nothing wrong or is their anything wrong with what FCA did and is doing to rectified this. This is open for discussion and some may feel/look that it was OK for FCA and nothing was wrong with the certification on Face value.
Now let's look at it from the legal standpoint After all if we don't follow the Laws on certain Matter's It tarnish the rest of Laws that are design to direct the affairs of any civil Society. Example Felony Drugs are Illegal, Should just small amounts be OK? If anyone breaks the law with small amounts its OK? If you don't like the law on small amounts then put forth effort to change the Law. Breaking the law selling these Illegal Drugs is NOT the process to change it?

Rumor Has it the DOJ is going to drop the hammer on FCA criminal charges .....unless FCA capitulates... Read about it here https://www.epa.gov/sites/productio...ents/2017-05-23_fca_us_complaint_as_filed.pdf
Line 96 97g21 Bosch testify that FCA purchase the defeat software Pg 23 line 103-106 2014-15-16 ALL behaved the same ...I tested the vehicle Myself Have the data to prove the DOJ is correct....I like FCA in fact I have Parcel interest in FCA being successful if you know what I mean. " We 'll see " on the final ruling but even the investors are worried that its going to cost FCA 1-3 $Billion.
Complaint EPA Findings

I'm also sure that the DOJ has the evidence Form Bosch that FCA purchased software designed on conditions. that was NOT disclosed at certification...Also FCA had Months to react to the findings and EPA compliance. What's FCA respond? the EPA was not in compliance with regulations, C'mon I dealt with the Hounds form the EPA in two other areas Chemicals and construction, I found them to be just and open to complying, They will even aid in compliance in most tasks... Whats FCA Stand " if you think FCA broke the law on compliance you are smoking something that's illegal"

If You were to visit the 1500ram1500diesl..... You would have seen I posted Back Mid 2015 that emission devices on the ED do not behave like other device on Other Diesel Power Plants and I believed at that time The devices were conditional ...All I received was trash form the Mods.. Now lets cover the Pass.. TC Diesel Posted that the MS11106 spec was NOT the Oil suit for the 3.0 Power plant Back in May 2015 . TC Diesel Posted , that rotating Mass failure is the main reason for many puke engine , TC Public declare the 3.0 QC is contributing to the alarming failures, TC Posted back early 2016 that the Software is illegal after obtaining a certified Combustion tester to confirm the Device were conditional . What more do I have say all My Pass posting public have come true... WHY? Because I look at things form decades of facts and Knowledge you don't find by Keystrokes. Things as they really are.. reality..

I like FCA products and will finically gain $ when the Corporation prospers , But in all Fairness to owners that purchased base on the Vehicle in compliance have legal grounds to pursuit action. For those that don't care about the legal developments they cant do as they wish... Its that simple....

 

[BoostN]

Thanks for the post TC. I'm glad you're sharing your findings here.. this is a open forum and I encourage discussions from all, even if we don't agree.

I just want this thread to have a nice clean discussion, I don't tolerate name calling and/or bashing of one another or their beliefs on an issue, so let's keep this thread clean.

 

[TC Diesel]

I here Ya... But it must be stated IMO that's it a discussion....Many ED owners are 1st time Diesel owners stating there OPINION on 1 time ownership is fine with Me...But disregard Fact(s) in that OPINION is were the problem begin. Example the heeha over 2017 being certified from the EPA ...No one has any idea what FCA recertification is , But we have History in what happens when the OE Tune is molested to conform.
The EPA will shutdown eventually anyone that violates the CAA, Even the big Names have paid 10millions in fines , Maybe the New DC admin Will change some regulations that are mundane and burdensome with little effect on the environment, but that's years away , BIG GOV move slower than snails on sand. Its risky going to the Aftermarket in the 3.0 Tunes EFLive straddles the legal fence and has avoided prosecution for Years But their disclaimer is very clear and the installer is legally responsible. What I find disturbing is some promote law breaking as acceptable and promoting it even raises the Bar.... So if you want to break laws in selling weather it be New vehicle sales or aftermarket tuning is fine By Me but don't incite others into thinking its OK to support what you did. and When (NOT if) you sell products that violate laws and incite its OK because the outcome suits My Bank Account .Now when the EPA reaper arrives and empties the sellers Bank account and all the buyers are left Hanging you did it ... I want owners to beware of the circumstance on both ends. Just Not the one promoted that breaks moral and legal statues... We just don't know at this time What FCA did to re-cert 2017. If they change the OP to conform! what are the future maintenance cost and increase failures failure.

 

[BoostN]

Well...

http://www.dieseltechmag.com/2017/08/surprise-its-another-diesel-lawsuit

According to the complaint, all Bosch Engine Control Units (ECUs) run on complex highly proprietary engine management software over which Bosch exerts near-total control. Design and implementation are interactive processes, requiring Bosch’s collaboration with the automaker throughout. In the affected Duramax trucks, the ECU 17 was used surreptitiously to evade emissions regulations, the suit says. Bosch and GM worked together to develop and implement a specific set of software algorithms to adjust fuel levels, exhaust gas recirculation, air pressure levels and urea injection rates.”

I guess all the automakers are going to jail..

 

[TC Diesel]

Fake News on the 2017 Duramax Bosch lost the LP5 2017 contract to Denso. Denso is the software and Hard part developer and Maker on the LP5 D-Max. Bosch 2001-16 LB7/ LLY / LBZ / LMM / LML power plants

 

[BoostN]

Fake News on the 2017 Duramax Bosch lost the LP5 2017 contract to Denso. Denso is the software and Hard part developer and Maker on the LP5 D-Max. Bosch 2001-16 LB7/ LLY / LBZ / LMM / LML power plants

I know that, what does Denso have to do with the 2011-2016 Duramax trucks though? The article is referencing Bosch and how they are contributing to "cheating".

 

[TC Diesel]

But the article States " In the affected Duramax trucks, the ECU 17 was used surreptitiously to evade emissions regulations, the suit says.' Bosch may have collaborated With GM 2011-16 ... But the law is clear each POWER PLANT is individually Certified, Cummins works With Bosch, FCA works with Cummins on all Cummins power plants it installs on FCA Trucks. FCA is legally Accountable / Responsible for every vehicle it makes under it NAME. This is Why FCA is suing Cummins NOT Bosch.... Bosch is off the Hook unless someone evidences to support collusion.
FCA is sole owner of VM, The EPA requires that all overseas power plants meet CAA, all the info is stored at CDX so no one can delete or sabotage the data. its a very tight system to avoid contaminating the Cert Process... I've use this process in the pass. I'm no expert at analyzing everything the NVFEL or EPA does... But I've had my legal battles with them... If EPA forwards NON - compliance to the DOJ (Already done) you will be opening your bank accounts for a constant and consuming withdraws...

I'm not disputing or agreeing with CAA concerning Diesel is correct or Taking sides in the matter. that's why I'm so surprised others have not joined this discussion....The fact as they now stand FCA sold vehicles that were NON - Compliant and did NOT disclose the truthful behavior of certain required devices to meet the CERT. Prior to all this the process was left up to the maker and stored at CDX , the NVFEL used the info to test the power plants for compliance . After it was discovered that the info was misleading (VW) the EPA changed its tactic's to in field and live testing. At this point the info Stored at CDX and verified by the NVFEL was condemning.

I'm at our cabin in West Yellowstone at present, and what vehicle did I take the ED, I drove 75-80 MPH the WHOLE way and Average 22.8 MPG. It has 35K miles. The ride and the power is awesome ... WHAT PO's Me is FCA continues BS on the ED They should have copulate back in NOV 2015 halted production and launch R/D to comply instead of fighting and extending the problems we have at current.. The QC and the darkness surrounding the ED is shocking at FCA Corp behavior.

 

[GearHead]

Good talk. I always felt based on TCDiesel's statements that this guy has dealt with Federal Government employees. Mainly because I have too and sometimes speak the same way. I agree with many of TC's conclusions, yes the MS11106 spec oil may be "good oil" but is not the best product for the ED. The oil may have been and could still be a major contributor to ED rotating mass, spun rod bearings-broken rods etc., the dealer I bought my truck from still uses the MS11106 oil, hence I do my own oil changes.
VM QC I haven't seen enough to condemn. Technicians that do not replace oil cooler are asking for the replacement engine to grenade in a thousand miles.
The temperature control system, blend oil, anti-freeze, ATF to get a quicker warm up or constant ATF temp failures I can not explain as this is the same system used for many years by Ford Motor Co. and still used, with no issues, or not as many as FCA.
Regens raising fuel dilution of oil, as another potential engine failure cause, have seen and agree that if your OA shows above 4% it is time for concern or change in maintenance process or driving paradigm.
DOJ process, yes once started you are in for a bad day, month, year. But after re-reading the suit and the stated reliefs I see no where that the DOJ asks for buy back, composting, crushing, etc. I still contend and would use the wording of the suit that #2 thru #6 are administrative in that FCA did not detail their presence or document their need to maintain engine operation, as I have seen gasoline ECM's with the same parameters with COC. Will the fine be hefty? Possibly to more than likely. I have also witnessed DOJ holding the sledge hammer and using a 16oz claw hammer once the Corporate entity was compelled to follow through on corrective actions.
The software that has passed CAA for a current COC on 2017 models, why would that be a "molested" ED? I would think it would fall into the realm of your own statement of have R&D come up with compatible repairs or programing.
With that all being said, I respect TCDiesel's point of view based upon my experience leading me to believe that he knows what he is talking about, but at the same time I think he could probably piss off the Pope while saying Mass. Also I am an eternal optimist, still, after dealing with several of the Federal alphabet organizations, on both sides of the fence, go figure.
I too am amazed at the Corporate handling of the customer base, communication, legal strategy, information management at all levels. You just can not treat your customers this way and expect brand loyalty.
And to finish off it totally pisses me off to see brand new diesels "Rolling Coal" getting on an expressway with obviously modified exhaust, engine management, turbo, etc. while we have to suffer through the uncertainty of the legal system. Especially since my wife and I have found this product, RAM ED, to be such a pleasure to drive.

 

[TC Diesel]

Yep... I would PO the POPE if He claims to represent God He had better be doing/saying God's will supported by Facts found in the scriptures. He can rumble all day long on Man Stuff or acts. Rumor has it FCA going to force load Dealerships on the ED If / when they are let out of the parking cage their are now lock in.

 

[GearHead]

I hear that. I share the same potential, which is why I sometimes do not post instantaneously and have been known to compose an entire message only to delete and start over to change my tone.
In Oklahoma the dealers could sell every 2017 ED they could get their hands on. However my thought is the 2018's are days away from delivery and a late 2017 could be dead upon arrival.