Engine Failure - Warranty Claim - DENIED

[hossman]

I dont see on that link that there are issues with the crank bearing, thats the law suit on the emissions. Am I wrong?

 

[John]

Has anyone ever seen or heard of bearing issues on the motors with the emissions deleted?

Yes

 

[John]

I dont see on that link that there are issues with the crank bearing, thats the law suit on the emissions. Am I wrong?

see post #6

 

[John]

Again the failure rate is not from shit bearings or whatever your theory is. The EGR valve is dumping contaminated particles directly into your motor and even after 500 miles there's way too many particles that are smaller than 20 microns that will ruin your bearings. The main filter only traps 20 -30 microns of particles. You need a bypass filter to remove all particles bigger than one micron. This will eliminate any bearing wear off the contaminants that are dumped into this motor. The issue is not the motor again it's the EDR valve contaminating the bearings. Think about this how could a Italian high-end diesel motor company put the wrong bearings in this motor they're not stupid. But bringing that motor over to the US in adding the US emissions systems on is the issue.

We wish this was the case. Motors with bearing issues have occured on engines with as little as 4,000 miles and as high as almost 300,000 miles. Read the two emails I linked and it's self explanatory. FCA currently has a weekly demand of 56 engines.

 

[John]

Engine failure is probably one of the few things TC and me agree on.

 

[TC Diesel]

1500deisel.com mods (some) are exteremly liberal = Hmmm...and Are Not up any type of criticism of there beloved 3.0 and GDE...Both are suffering loss from the forum directions and support... If anyone wants to follow 1500diesel.com into the pit Just like the 3.0 and GDE is there decision.. Until that Site is gone and no longer up or changes its direction , I will warn anyone from its risks.

I'm darn Proud not to be welcome at 1500diesel.com...

Orion-Hunter you are welcome to call Me.....

 

[hossman]

After all the dusts settle will the recall the engines to replace the bearings?

 

[John]

After all the dusts settle will the recall the engines to replace the bearings?

Unlikely

 

[TC Diesel]

After all the dusts settle will the recall the engines to replace the bearings?

Extremely Unlikely...

 

[TC Diesel]

John you beat Me by 1 minute...

 

[Orion_Hunter]

Well, I had another long talk with the service manager today which ended in further disappointment. She indicated the regional manager is dug in and believes my warranty is void by exceeding the 10,000 mile mark on oil changes. She admitted it is surprising and unusual that he is taking a hard line stance on this particular case and could not give me a reason why. She said she has had several conversations with him and tried to plead my case but was unsuccessful. This was further confirmed with the follow up call I got from Customer Care today. The call was surreal, the guy sounded like a body guard from the Soprano's and kept telling me that "There's nothing we can do for you bud, you rode that truck too hard". The truck is hardly "ridden hard" - it commutes 50miles a day to get to my desk job and then road trips on the weekend. Almost all of the miles are freeway.

The district manager even told my service manager that he would not pay for the oil pan to be dropped to look at the bearings since it didn't matter what caused the failure, since in his opinion I broke the terms of the warranty. The dealer service manager is going to go ahead and pull the oil pan anyway on the dealers dime to take a look at the bearings. So, I will see where that leads...

Everyone I have spoken to so far keeps telling me that the oil should be changed between 5k and 7k and that oil life indicator rarely makes it to 10k. Is that the experience of others here? My oil life indicator looked like it tracked to 10k for every oil change. When I purchased the truck I was told the interval was 10K and I have had conversations with the dealer in the past about oil interval and they instructed me to follow the oil life indicator.

I am quickly losing hope that Chrysler is going to come through without going to the mat. I wonder if the burden of replacement engines is becoming too much for FCA and they are taking a hard line as policy or do I just have a district manager that is having a bad week and feels like sticking it to someone.

Orion

 

[TC Diesel]

The 2014-19 3.0 is no longer in production, the cost to replace the Engine on VM. $ is considerably higher, FCA cannot rely on VM shipping production engines, This is mostly like future for all 2014-19 Owners If the 3.0 pukes.

 

[Orion_Hunter]

The 2014-19 3.0 is no longer in production, the cost to replace the Engine on VM. $ is considerably higher, FCA cannot rely on VM shipping production engines, This is mostly like future for all 2014-19 Owners If the 3.0 pukes.

Hmm, I hope you are wrong for other peoples sake, but you are saying makes sense. I have been puzzled that my experience seems so out of line with other people have reported with their warranty experiences.

 

[F. P. Thompson]

Its a gamble but it may be time to find a good lawyer. FCA sent an email to EPA on 5-26-2016 that states they are having bearing issues on model years 14,15,and16 with the 3.0L diesel engine. The near term solution at that point was to switch to 5w40 API-CJ4 oil and FCA ran tests to demonstrate no emissions and FE effect due to the change in oil. Your 2017 should have had the 5w40 oil in it when new as the service bulletin released to dealers on 7-20-2016 instructed them to change out the oil and do a PCM and TCM flash on any unsold 3.0 diesels built on or before 6-20-2016. Check all your oil change documents to be sure any service providers put the correct oil in your truck. FCA is using the 170 mile issue to squeak out of fixing your engine but if you find any service provider used any other oil you may have recourse with them. I saved the old oil and receipts from every change I did myself in case I have to prove the correct oil was used. I plan on having my dealer do all services while the additional warranty provided with the emissions modification is in effect as the additional cost will be money well spent if I have an issue.

 

[TC Diesel]

Lube is NOT blood type...I have never seen fanatics hook on lube causing engine failure (except Eco owners)...what is different in the VM 3.0 last time I checked its has the same materials and rotating mass as millions of other engines..its this simple the QC at Cento is FUBAR, the place is a rats nest the tools used are equal to 1980 Technogly, couple that with the lying libs at VM is going to equal Puked Motors.

Lube does effect life span, it will not cause exteremly early premature Puking...

As long as Eco owners visit places like 1500diesel.com and blame the lube or its OK to puke at extremely low mileage, expect Fait to continue to bring that POS VM 3.0 to Americas soil.

 

[Orion_Hunter]

Well I was able to get the following email sent to the District Manager that apparently is getting some amount of traction. I rolled in much of the advice that was given on this site and elsewhere, so thanks all again. My service manager said the District Manager was interested in the emails regarding the bearing failures and is going to talk to his manager.

We have started talking with other dealerships and lawyers so I am not dead in the water yet!

Hi Janell,

I have put together a summary of my case and am asking that you to please forward it on to the District Manager. When we spoke yesterday I was concerned that the district manager does not have an accurate understanding of how the truck has been used and so I am hoping this summary will help clarify any confusion that may exist and lead him to reconsider his recommendation to not cover my engine under warranty.

If you have the opportunity to speak with Scott again, I would ask you highlight the following items

• There is a known issue with bearing failures with ecodiesel engines and there is no evidence that my maintenance caused the failure.
• All oil changes were done within 500 miles of the oil change required message.
• The truck was maintained in a manner that I understood to be reasonable and in accordance with the owner’s manual. The dealership advertised the oil change interval as 10,000 miles when I purchased the truck. I have discussed oil change intervals with Rairdon service managers in the past, and I had been advised to follow the dash oil life indicator which I have done.

Also, if you have any comments/concerns/additions you would like to provide regarding the information below, that would be great.

Thanks,
Orion xxxxxx
206-819-xxxx

Vehicle Description:
2017 Ram 1500 Ecodiesel Laramie Crew Cab LB 4x4
VIN:xxxxxx
Odometer: 47,000 miles

Vehicle Usage:
The truck is primarily used as a commuter vehicle to travel daily from my home in Kirkland to my place of work (Boeing) in Tukwila. The daily commute is ~50miles total. On weekends, we frequently travel to camp and recreate outside which can involve many highway miles. The truck is generally driven in a manner to maximize fuel economy. Approximately once a month during the summer, a small fiberglass travel trailer (Dry weight 2,000lbs) is towed on the highway for camping. The truck is NOT used for heavy hauling, offroading, frequent city driving or short commutes or other severe condition use.

Vehicle Issue:
Suspected seized main bearing and thrown connector rod.

Sunday 11/3 at 11:30 the truck started making a sharp knocking noise while driving on the freeway at approximately 65mph. I was hauling a small dirtbike and driving a steady speed on a level surface. The knocking became quickly much worse and the truck began to lose power. I idled the truck to the shoulder immediately and shut off the engine. I was towed to Rairdon’s Kirkland and truck was started three times that I know of since. Once to shift the truck to neutral to load. Once to shift the truck to neutral to unload. Once to move the truck a short distance in the lot.

Vehicle/Service History:
The vehicle was purchased new in late 2017 and had all service maintenance done at Rairdon’s Kirkland. All oil changes were done within the maximum recommended interval of 10,000 miles with the exception of the second oil service done at an interval of 10,170 miles per the odometer. This truck is equipped with and an oil life indicator which alerts me when service is due. The only time that I had service light illuminate was for the second oil service when the service light illuminated at 10,000 miles. The truck was brought into the dealer for service within the 500 miles of the light illuminating as instructed per the owner’s manual. At the time of engine failure, the vehicle has just over 47,000 miles on the odometer.

Service records are attached (HS537930.pdf)

Dealer Response:
Rairdon’s Kirkland service manager Janell informed me that the engine needs to be replaced due to failed main bearings. Janelle initiated a Chrysler warranty approval for purchase of a new engine. Service records were provided to the Chrysler District Manager (Scott). Janell communicated verbally to me that Chrysler rejected the warranty claim citing improper maintenance as the cause of the engine failure. As of 11/7/2019 no mechanic inspection of the vehicle has been performed; the diagnoses of the engine problem and cause of failure appears to be entirely done without inspection and it is unclear what evidence they have the engine indeed needs to be replaced or what caused any failure.

I have had multiple interactions with Janell and another service manager (Marcello) in an effort to appeal the decision to deny the warranty. Janell has insisted that the dealer does not have any leverage with Chrysler and there is no additional recourse available. Janell also communicated that the District Manager suspected the truck was “used as a work truck” and that the oil life indicator likely came on well before 10k miles – this is not true as described earlier.

Known Engine Problems of Ecodiesel:
High failure rates of main bearings in the ecodiesel are a known issue within Chrysler. This has been documented with emails between Chrysler(FCA) and EPA that were made public in the ecodiesel emmissions settlement case 17-MD-2777-EMC. See attachments and the following links.

https://jalopnik.com/baffled-by-dieselgate-emails-reveal-fiat-chrysler-stru-1822737746
https://www.cand.uscourts.gov/emc/chryslermdl

There are also numerous anecdotal accounts available on the internet. It is worth noting that it appears that Chrysler honored the warranty and provided replacement engines for the vast majority of accounts. There are examples the warranty was honored with similar service history as I have.

 

[scoffman]

Good Luck man. They better replace that engine, or buy it back. There is no way 170 miles over would have made any difference at all. Hang in there.

 

[Orion_Hunter]

Okay, not much has happened over the weekend and the Dealership still has not dropped the oil pan. I did get another dealership to agree to reach out to the District Manager and see what his thoughts are. I hope this will let me know if I am having a dealership problem or a Chrysler problem.

I was able to get an oil sample from my truck and will look into sending that off to be analyzed.

Orion

 

[TC Diesel]

Its to late...the sample is contaminated... likely will be misused or evaluated incorrectly.

 

[Orion_Hunter]

Well, I finally heard back from my Service Manager today and the District Manager has approved a purchase of a new motor under warranty! The dealer said the engine will be ordered tomorrow and she estimated will be installed within the next couple of weeks. Hopefully there are no more hiccups; I don't think I am going to feel at ease until the truck is parked at home with new motor, but today is good news!

I would like to give a big thanks to everyone for offering their solid advice and for also providing a sympathetic ear for my story. I am sure that some of the talking points that you all provided were instrumental in changing the tide on my case.

I'll be sure to provide an update and hopefully put a bow on this thread with a happy ending.

Thanks again,
Orion