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EPA holding 2017 Diesels hostage
- Thread starter BoostN
- Start date
TC Diesel
Well-Known Member
- Jul 14, 2016
- 2,549
- 734
- Truck Year
- 2015
Ram still has to honor the warranty contract...The area I find most concerning, If the ED 3.0 go's out of production being overseas Motor it will cost 2-3 times more in repair(s) past warranty ,Being only 104,000 3.0s in N/A its doubtful that aftermarket parts will be available .
bobcat67
Active Member
- May 19, 2016
- 223
- 88
- Truck Year
- 2016
Yeah, I'm not saying right this very minute, I'm saying in the future, after the dust settles or if it does settle, they're still taking orders for them, my fathers company just ordered 50 of them or something ridiculous, which I find very odd, why wouldn't a company just be upfront with them and say hey, we don't know what's going on
I think TC has it correct about warranty and after warranty expires in the future if they stop producing them all together. If a short term delay and keep producing them I think not a big deal as long as they keep the parts warehouse supplied till they get going again, which I think they would.
stormcom
Member
- Oct 22, 2016
- 30
- 2
- Truck Year
- 2016
Th
FCA rep offered to replace my Limited ED with a gas. 6k trade assist (did not want to brand title). 4k diff between gas and ED. that is total of 10k. dealer wanted 12.8 k diff on top making a total of 22.8k diff on a 4.5 month old truck.
I also sat in GM's office of another dealership where 2 wholesalers out of 4 would not even bid the truck.
That is why I got rid of mine when I got a chance. Took a huge hit. Took in for a free oil change and oh by the way, we reprogrammed the tranny and the engine and put in oil that the owners manual said not to run. I think they are grasping at straws.
FCA rep offered to replace my Limited ED with a gas. 6k trade assist (did not want to brand title). 4k diff between gas and ED. that is total of 10k. dealer wanted 12.8 k diff on top making a total of 22.8k diff on a 4.5 month old truck.
I also sat in GM's office of another dealership where 2 wholesalers out of 4 would not even bid the truck.
Ron Bucher
New Member
- Nov 1, 2016
- 11
- 5
- Truck Year
- 2017
Ron Bucher
New Member
- Nov 1, 2016
- 11
- 5
- Truck Year
- 2017
I waited several months on a 2017 ED order. I delved into the working???? of the EPA and 230,000 employees and >found that their unfinished business files are mountainous. All the while they are taking on more.. When I found 15 year .old files molding there I cancelled and got a Hemi.
dbr2
New Member
- Jan 2, 2016
- 22
- 10
- Truck Year
- 2016
I think the EPA has about 20K employees. Again, an agency that started with about 50 employees has now, like a cancer grown to 20k+ employees. Each and every government employee in this agency destroys wealth. Setting aside the fact of the regulations that they have implemented to support a left "political" and green view point of "climate change". Each and every employee is not a need, in all reality a created positon. The EPA were to partner with agencies and business to help create tech to help reduce emissions, oversee abuse, somewhere they changed the mission statement to destroy the economy buy setting standards that are in some cases not able to be done. "Coal" and lets not forget they have set the highest emission standard and mileage standards in the world, no other country has these standards, NONE!
Sorry, got off mission here. Now, back to the issue. Every person these agencies employ, is a financial burden to the American people. We pay a salary, very high cost of benefits, pensions, 403b/401k matches, health care cost, they get a retirement that exceeds the private sector, we must house each person in very expensive locations (excess overhead), they must have a phone, printer, copier, a desk, office supplies, a cubical/office, utilities, support staff, janitorial/maintenance, etc. . If you are a small business owner, as I am, you understand all of the unseen hidden cost. You must consider every dollar you pay out you must add 50%-60% of their income to actually cost of employee.
The 20k+ employees runs about 3 billion a year for us to fund the EPA, multiply this by all the other agencies. The VA runs over 18 Billion, really, it needs to go private. In reality there should be about 2 employees per state to serve with companies and government to help as a resource and identify areas of concern and sometimes areas that companies have exploited the local communities. The need to bring oversight to companies bring them to task legally, we have a state justice department that should be the first line of attack and then the Federal Justice department can back them if needed. Maybe some fairness in how the decide who and how much to fine an offender, this pull it out of the hat no formula or schedule is abuse of power to apply pressure to adversaries of the Political Left.
The government confiscates wealth from the Hard Working People. The Government should not be one of the largest employers in the nation, much less the world. Employment needs to be in the private sector creating wealth, not in the public sector destroying other peoples wealth and hard work. The middle class get the most un-proportionate confiscation of there earning and hard work.
The EPA, Energy, Education, DOL, Business development dept. that represent about 120k+ jobs should be reduced to about 100-200 per agency where they started before growing like a cancer into this huge bureaucracy, everybody wants to be promoted or be a manager so, they create dept's. and grow people for no reason other than to grow their position. This is true "Wealth Confiscation".
Almost all government works in reverse of the private sector, private sector looks to stream line and reduce overhead and run efficiently with as few people as possible, it is a cost concern. On the other hand the Government has no cost concerns, they run a budget and if the are running to lean near the end of the year and have excess, they find a way to spend it and run a deficit to support the need for a larger budget. They government does not produce a single item that produces 1-dollar, but the can always support the need for more money, larger growth, more dept. , etc. They can just raise tax and support it with some form of need, Really!
You can only Tax your way into prosperity until the people run out of money.
So put in a short form we have all heard, 'YOU CAN'T TAX YOUR WAY TO PROSPERITY'
These law suits are way out of hand, suing on regs. that are unreasonable and in some cases impossible to meet at this time with the present Tech. Common sense does not work here, it is political motivation to reach an agenda. Who is going to fine the EPA for their disaster in Colorado of the Mine Till Sight they destroyed and with the river it flowed into and caused a massive cleanup at Tax Payer Expense.. Can't fine yourself and certainly would not fire yourself. Disband the EPA!
Remember the "IRS" (Alamo), The IRS, "Obama's attack dogs". Now I digress, SORRY!
Time to hand out 100K+ pink slips reduce billions in benefit overhead, sale properties, furniture, get rid of equipment leases and contracts, return the money back to the people. Don't get me wrong, we do need an oversight agency, one that is responsive to reasonable protection of the people. Common sense approaches, not politically driven left, liberal and tree hungers agenda's. One that works for the nation as a whole. Keep It Simple Servants "KISS" and put a limit on the size of these agencies (200 employees), give them a direct charter/mission statement and not let them grow to an unmanageable goliath that wants to create there own laws thru fiat of Regs.
Glad I got that off my chest. LOL!
All of that diatribe I just went thru was to say the attack on the FCA is politically motivated, not because it is harming our way of life.
Sorry, got off mission here. Now, back to the issue. Every person these agencies employ, is a financial burden to the American people. We pay a salary, very high cost of benefits, pensions, 403b/401k matches, health care cost, they get a retirement that exceeds the private sector, we must house each person in very expensive locations (excess overhead), they must have a phone, printer, copier, a desk, office supplies, a cubical/office, utilities, support staff, janitorial/maintenance, etc. . If you are a small business owner, as I am, you understand all of the unseen hidden cost. You must consider every dollar you pay out you must add 50%-60% of their income to actually cost of employee.
The 20k+ employees runs about 3 billion a year for us to fund the EPA, multiply this by all the other agencies. The VA runs over 18 Billion, really, it needs to go private. In reality there should be about 2 employees per state to serve with companies and government to help as a resource and identify areas of concern and sometimes areas that companies have exploited the local communities. The need to bring oversight to companies bring them to task legally, we have a state justice department that should be the first line of attack and then the Federal Justice department can back them if needed. Maybe some fairness in how the decide who and how much to fine an offender, this pull it out of the hat no formula or schedule is abuse of power to apply pressure to adversaries of the Political Left.
The government confiscates wealth from the Hard Working People. The Government should not be one of the largest employers in the nation, much less the world. Employment needs to be in the private sector creating wealth, not in the public sector destroying other peoples wealth and hard work. The middle class get the most un-proportionate confiscation of there earning and hard work.
The EPA, Energy, Education, DOL, Business development dept. that represent about 120k+ jobs should be reduced to about 100-200 per agency where they started before growing like a cancer into this huge bureaucracy, everybody wants to be promoted or be a manager so, they create dept's. and grow people for no reason other than to grow their position. This is true "Wealth Confiscation".
Almost all government works in reverse of the private sector, private sector looks to stream line and reduce overhead and run efficiently with as few people as possible, it is a cost concern. On the other hand the Government has no cost concerns, they run a budget and if the are running to lean near the end of the year and have excess, they find a way to spend it and run a deficit to support the need for a larger budget. They government does not produce a single item that produces 1-dollar, but the can always support the need for more money, larger growth, more dept. , etc. They can just raise tax and support it with some form of need, Really!
You can only Tax your way into prosperity until the people run out of money.
So put in a short form we have all heard, 'YOU CAN'T TAX YOUR WAY TO PROSPERITY'
These law suits are way out of hand, suing on regs. that are unreasonable and in some cases impossible to meet at this time with the present Tech. Common sense does not work here, it is political motivation to reach an agenda. Who is going to fine the EPA for their disaster in Colorado of the Mine Till Sight they destroyed and with the river it flowed into and caused a massive cleanup at Tax Payer Expense.. Can't fine yourself and certainly would not fire yourself. Disband the EPA!
Remember the "IRS" (Alamo), The IRS, "Obama's attack dogs". Now I digress, SORRY!
Time to hand out 100K+ pink slips reduce billions in benefit overhead, sale properties, furniture, get rid of equipment leases and contracts, return the money back to the people. Don't get me wrong, we do need an oversight agency, one that is responsive to reasonable protection of the people. Common sense approaches, not politically driven left, liberal and tree hungers agenda's. One that works for the nation as a whole. Keep It Simple Servants "KISS" and put a limit on the size of these agencies (200 employees), give them a direct charter/mission statement and not let them grow to an unmanageable goliath that wants to create there own laws thru fiat of Regs.
Glad I got that off my chest. LOL!
All of that diatribe I just went thru was to say the attack on the FCA is politically motivated, not because it is harming our way of life.
TC Diesel
Well-Known Member
- Jul 14, 2016
- 2,549
- 734
- Truck Year
- 2015
Dbr2, I agree the agency is out of control, but to blame the EPA for this @ 100% just is not the case. You and I see eye to on the scope of the EPA, FCA is not clean in this matter and after the justice dept finishes its Investigation we will see more and clearer.
The EPA has 0 control over CDX ,Central data exchange, this is the 1st step in certification, its the law that any company that wishes to certify Parts, engines, equipment start here. All information is secure ,but NOT ALL is private. https://cdx.epa.gov
Back in 2009-10 When I was under contact With Cat 2 year and 5 year gag that has expired I can mention this . Several individuals mentioned that small displacement diesel engines would have a very tuff go of it to meet future regulations so they work hard at meeting the requirements with larger displacements ....
Here's the bigger problem, This generation has lost site on planning, Example every time I mentioned at the 1500diesel.com that the ED 3.0 was in trouble (Early 16 late15) the mods jump in and threw the speculation card along with the bunch of cheerleaders .I call it planning, when the planning became true it was just more denial.
Its easy to cast blame on the EPA, but the facts are its laws that they enforce, So its time for a few good men to stand up to these standards and change them. I do not see were this act by the EPA is motivated Politically. Its simple the 3.0 small dis[placement motor at the power levels to Meet 1/2 ton standards is next to impossible. with the technology FCA had in 2010-12.
The EPA has 0 control over CDX ,Central data exchange, this is the 1st step in certification, its the law that any company that wishes to certify Parts, engines, equipment start here. All information is secure ,but NOT ALL is private. https://cdx.epa.gov
Back in 2009-10 When I was under contact With Cat 2 year and 5 year gag that has expired I can mention this . Several individuals mentioned that small displacement diesel engines would have a very tuff go of it to meet future regulations so they work hard at meeting the requirements with larger displacements ....
Here's the bigger problem, This generation has lost site on planning, Example every time I mentioned at the 1500diesel.com that the ED 3.0 was in trouble (Early 16 late15) the mods jump in and threw the speculation card along with the bunch of cheerleaders .I call it planning, when the planning became true it was just more denial.
Its easy to cast blame on the EPA, but the facts are its laws that they enforce, So its time for a few good men to stand up to these standards and change them. I do not see were this act by the EPA is motivated Politically. Its simple the 3.0 small dis[placement motor at the power levels to Meet 1/2 ton standards is next to impossible. with the technology FCA had in 2010-12.
stormcom
Member
- Oct 22, 2016
- 30
- 2
- Truck Year
- 2016
dbr2:
I agree with you on your stance on the EPA and other governmental entities. However, YOU have never been in a meeting with FCA. They have no concern with you as a ED owner. I had 2 vehicles that had major electrical issues. The trucks would not start and the second one had mechanical issues also. The losses I took were in the 10's of thousands of dollars say nothing of my time.
FCA was deceptive on the reprograms. They would say you need to bring it in for a free oil change and then put oil in it that would void your warranty. Their answer, put a sticker in the owners manual. I used to drive a 1500 v6 gas. I had a lifetime FCA warranty on it. Could I get that warranty on the ED, NO!!! Why, they won't last that long and they know it.
My zone rep in our meeting the week of Thanksgiving said they would offer trade assistance. Why, they do not want to brand the title as a lemon. 30+ trips to the dealership and it is not a branded warranty. They just want to keep throwing parts into it. Oh, but if you complain, you get a free oil change and a reprogram.
I have driven mopar since the 70's. I wish you people luck but both the government and FCA have political agendas. I do look forward to being put on the stand (will probably never happen) to tell my side of the story to 11 citizens.
FCA needs to suck it up and admit there is a problem. Not offer trade assistance and give someone else the headache.
I agree with you on your stance on the EPA and other governmental entities. However, YOU have never been in a meeting with FCA. They have no concern with you as a ED owner. I had 2 vehicles that had major electrical issues. The trucks would not start and the second one had mechanical issues also. The losses I took were in the 10's of thousands of dollars say nothing of my time.
FCA was deceptive on the reprograms. They would say you need to bring it in for a free oil change and then put oil in it that would void your warranty. Their answer, put a sticker in the owners manual. I used to drive a 1500 v6 gas. I had a lifetime FCA warranty on it. Could I get that warranty on the ED, NO!!! Why, they won't last that long and they know it.
My zone rep in our meeting the week of Thanksgiving said they would offer trade assistance. Why, they do not want to brand the title as a lemon. 30+ trips to the dealership and it is not a branded warranty. They just want to keep throwing parts into it. Oh, but if you complain, you get a free oil change and a reprogram.
I have driven mopar since the 70's. I wish you people luck but both the government and FCA have political agendas. I do look forward to being put on the stand (will probably never happen) to tell my side of the story to 11 citizens.
FCA needs to suck it up and admit there is a problem. Not offer trade assistance and give someone else the headache.
dbr2
New Member
- Jan 2, 2016
- 22
- 10
- Truck Year
- 2016
Well, I did not mean to offend anybody with my thoughts. I have some insight into the EPA, I do believe they used their ability to slice and dice a reg to support their need to apply a lawsuit to the FCA. I do not believe in coincidence either, look at the timing and whom is leaving office and how these new reg's where pushed thru by the admin in power. Follow the "not money" but the supporters and you will come to a direct line of admin over reach to EPA reg's that are in excess of the world in every way. If you look at the suit the alleged breaking of the law is directed to the software that is put in place to save the engine when thing go wrong. This is allowed, you can call it for simple terms a limp mode that is self correcting when the engine begins to meet proper running conditions. If conditions are temporary for a reason, over heating, you are hauling too much load and demanding more then the engine can give, it will detune.
The software safety modes are allowed in these reg's, they were disclosed in the material and software given to get approval. When the engine is running at normal conditions it runs and meets the requirement set out. FCA does not detect and reset software conditions to pass a test. The results they are alleging are a rare occurrence and in a lot of the cases inflicted by the owners by exceeding limits. Not all of these are owner inflicted, some are just the engine detecting failing conditions due to a sensor or a major part.
I for one believe that to protect the engine this is a good thing, not a bad think and for the rarity of its impact on the environment is just really nuts to think we are at risk.
Now, Stormcom to some comment of how the FCA did not stand up behind your vehicle with electrical concerns, does not apply to the lawsuit against the emissions.
Now with that said, I really dislike companies that do not stand behind their product. These situations need to be made public and you are well within you right to force the lemon law. I believe you may have had even more bargaining power if it is reported and proved to fall under the "Lemon Law" statute that was passed. I for one would stand with you in all of those concerns, I do not think any person buying a vehicle or for that matter any large purchase and buying good faith of a product should endure this. Sorry, you went thru all of that, it not only the money you lost, but the stress it put on you and the large amount of time you wasted trying to resolve the issue.
TC Diesel, I do agree, the lawsuit will bare out the facts, although it is sometime just easier to pay a fine then to endure the onslaught of the US Government. EPA levies a huge fine on VW, what did they use and how did they decide that amount of money, it was obscene, it is out of proportion unless you are trying to get them to stop selling in the US. Never know the intentions of the department, it has overreached in way too many cases. If you look at some of these lawsuit and the individual that where drug though court for years, spent hundreds of thousands of dollars on defense and finally awarded a win. Common sense would have told you that, but look at the persons they attacked, the political loyalty of them and you will defend the thought that there is a political nature to lot of what they do. Again, oversight is needed, But, to attack citizens, to part them with their money so they can't support their affiliation, is just criminal in itself, and then to have the EPA to be ruled wrong. As a citizen you have no recourse to recapture all of those hundreds of thousands of dollars, the government has parted your from your money and diminished your wealth.
Again, can you say IRS. To believe the EPA does not have a political slant is not really facing the problem. I have lost faith in these huge bureaucracies, there is so many factions in each dept. with sometimes their own agendas.
I am a first time dodge owner, I have been a very loyal Ford supporter since I worked in the energy industry, they just stood up and had very little down time. I owned an oilfield service company and was a GM person for years. But, after all of the down time due to rounded cam lobe's and rear axle failures, I changed over to a couple of ford 3/4 tons truck to try them. My down time was almost zero, gas, oil changes, brakes and tires, pretty much just maintenance. I would keep a truck for about 85K miles and sale them. Most of my trucks would mile out in less than a year so, I would be buying and selling a fleet of about 40 pickups a year. So, ford earned my dollars by saving me dollars, GM's always carried a bit higher resale value but it was by far to small an amount for the down time cost and repair cost. An axle swap does not take long, but if you have to load it up on a flat bed and run it back 200 mile to civilization, not really cost effective and then the cost of the gears set and labor.
Stormcom, I am truly on your side, as companies should stand behind their products, I would rather see a class action suit against FCA for this, as it is real, measurable and hurts the owners directly. I have had many battles with GM, so I stopped battling and moved my dollars.
I truly understand you loss of money on your vehicles, I have felt you pain.
Again, I did not make comments on this post too offend anybody. Everybody has their opinions, thoughts and experiences and I truly respect those, they are all different and real to each one of us.
I never write on these post, I just like reading them, I have to admit, I learn a lot and really do enjoy reading them. But, I just had enough, of the EPA and over reach. I have seen this directly and dealt with them directly (energy industry). I bet you can tell I am not a fan of the EPA or any of those depts. as I mentioned previously.
I have just over 21k on my eco diesel, I have changed the oil myself, each and every time ( 6k per change). I also have kept each oil filter, an 8oz sample of each oil change in sample bottles that I purchased just for saving the oil sample. I kept the purchase receipt for the Oil and filters to prove the purchase and of course I still have the filters and oil samples. I have never done this, but with so many owners making comments on problems, I looked at this as an insurance Policy.
Your comment of fighting FCA, gave me flash backs of arguing with the GM dealer and the GM regional rep over rear ends and gear set and even the paint on the vehicle would peel. I lost more pinion seals and gear sets than normal, out of 40 trucks a year I would lose 5 or 6 gears sets and usually 4 or 5 rounded of cam lobe's. It was never warrantied.
I just ordered a Green Diesel Engineering ECU yesterday. I think turning off the EGR is a plus for the engine. recycling waste engine gas is just not healthy for any part of the engine. I have worked around diesel of all kinds, from very large, as in Rig power plants for diesel electric rigs to directly diesel powered rigs. And of course Oil Field 18 wheeler rig movers, down to small 5kw generators. The longevity and dependability of these engines are outstanding. Hence my decision to replace my ECU.
I read a study a year or so ago, I will look for it. It showed that some of the small diesel power plants (new entry 1/2 ton up to 2-ton) would if tuned correctly would give off slightly higher emissions but with much better power delivery and fuel economy. Resulting in the delivering of less into the atmosphere due to the much better fuel economy. Again, sometimes academia and living on a theoretical reality on paper is not real world. I experience that in the energy industry on a regular basis, theoretic reality and the real world are quite different.
Again, I rattled on too long. Sorry! I Appreciate all of the comments. I will try to reduce down my comments to much shorter statements or go back into obscurity and just continue to read these post. I truly get on a rant.
The software safety modes are allowed in these reg's, they were disclosed in the material and software given to get approval. When the engine is running at normal conditions it runs and meets the requirement set out. FCA does not detect and reset software conditions to pass a test. The results they are alleging are a rare occurrence and in a lot of the cases inflicted by the owners by exceeding limits. Not all of these are owner inflicted, some are just the engine detecting failing conditions due to a sensor or a major part.
I for one believe that to protect the engine this is a good thing, not a bad think and for the rarity of its impact on the environment is just really nuts to think we are at risk.
Now, Stormcom to some comment of how the FCA did not stand up behind your vehicle with electrical concerns, does not apply to the lawsuit against the emissions.
Now with that said, I really dislike companies that do not stand behind their product. These situations need to be made public and you are well within you right to force the lemon law. I believe you may have had even more bargaining power if it is reported and proved to fall under the "Lemon Law" statute that was passed. I for one would stand with you in all of those concerns, I do not think any person buying a vehicle or for that matter any large purchase and buying good faith of a product should endure this. Sorry, you went thru all of that, it not only the money you lost, but the stress it put on you and the large amount of time you wasted trying to resolve the issue.
TC Diesel, I do agree, the lawsuit will bare out the facts, although it is sometime just easier to pay a fine then to endure the onslaught of the US Government. EPA levies a huge fine on VW, what did they use and how did they decide that amount of money, it was obscene, it is out of proportion unless you are trying to get them to stop selling in the US. Never know the intentions of the department, it has overreached in way too many cases. If you look at some of these lawsuit and the individual that where drug though court for years, spent hundreds of thousands of dollars on defense and finally awarded a win. Common sense would have told you that, but look at the persons they attacked, the political loyalty of them and you will defend the thought that there is a political nature to lot of what they do. Again, oversight is needed, But, to attack citizens, to part them with their money so they can't support their affiliation, is just criminal in itself, and then to have the EPA to be ruled wrong. As a citizen you have no recourse to recapture all of those hundreds of thousands of dollars, the government has parted your from your money and diminished your wealth.
Again, can you say IRS. To believe the EPA does not have a political slant is not really facing the problem. I have lost faith in these huge bureaucracies, there is so many factions in each dept. with sometimes their own agendas.
I am a first time dodge owner, I have been a very loyal Ford supporter since I worked in the energy industry, they just stood up and had very little down time. I owned an oilfield service company and was a GM person for years. But, after all of the down time due to rounded cam lobe's and rear axle failures, I changed over to a couple of ford 3/4 tons truck to try them. My down time was almost zero, gas, oil changes, brakes and tires, pretty much just maintenance. I would keep a truck for about 85K miles and sale them. Most of my trucks would mile out in less than a year so, I would be buying and selling a fleet of about 40 pickups a year. So, ford earned my dollars by saving me dollars, GM's always carried a bit higher resale value but it was by far to small an amount for the down time cost and repair cost. An axle swap does not take long, but if you have to load it up on a flat bed and run it back 200 mile to civilization, not really cost effective and then the cost of the gears set and labor.
Stormcom, I am truly on your side, as companies should stand behind their products, I would rather see a class action suit against FCA for this, as it is real, measurable and hurts the owners directly. I have had many battles with GM, so I stopped battling and moved my dollars.
I truly understand you loss of money on your vehicles, I have felt you pain.
Again, I did not make comments on this post too offend anybody. Everybody has their opinions, thoughts and experiences and I truly respect those, they are all different and real to each one of us.
I never write on these post, I just like reading them, I have to admit, I learn a lot and really do enjoy reading them. But, I just had enough, of the EPA and over reach. I have seen this directly and dealt with them directly (energy industry). I bet you can tell I am not a fan of the EPA or any of those depts. as I mentioned previously.
I have just over 21k on my eco diesel, I have changed the oil myself, each and every time ( 6k per change). I also have kept each oil filter, an 8oz sample of each oil change in sample bottles that I purchased just for saving the oil sample. I kept the purchase receipt for the Oil and filters to prove the purchase and of course I still have the filters and oil samples. I have never done this, but with so many owners making comments on problems, I looked at this as an insurance Policy.
Your comment of fighting FCA, gave me flash backs of arguing with the GM dealer and the GM regional rep over rear ends and gear set and even the paint on the vehicle would peel. I lost more pinion seals and gear sets than normal, out of 40 trucks a year I would lose 5 or 6 gears sets and usually 4 or 5 rounded of cam lobe's. It was never warrantied.
I just ordered a Green Diesel Engineering ECU yesterday. I think turning off the EGR is a plus for the engine. recycling waste engine gas is just not healthy for any part of the engine. I have worked around diesel of all kinds, from very large, as in Rig power plants for diesel electric rigs to directly diesel powered rigs. And of course Oil Field 18 wheeler rig movers, down to small 5kw generators. The longevity and dependability of these engines are outstanding. Hence my decision to replace my ECU.
I read a study a year or so ago, I will look for it. It showed that some of the small diesel power plants (new entry 1/2 ton up to 2-ton) would if tuned correctly would give off slightly higher emissions but with much better power delivery and fuel economy. Resulting in the delivering of less into the atmosphere due to the much better fuel economy. Again, sometimes academia and living on a theoretical reality on paper is not real world. I experience that in the energy industry on a regular basis, theoretic reality and the real world are quite different.
Again, I rattled on too long. Sorry! I Appreciate all of the comments. I will try to reduce down my comments to much shorter statements or go back into obscurity and just continue to read these post. I truly get on a rant.
dbr2
New Member
- Jan 2, 2016
- 22
- 10
- Truck Year
- 2016
thanks for you comments.
TC Diesel
Well-Known Member
- Jul 14, 2016
- 2,549
- 734
- Truck Year
- 2015
Dbr2, We are on the same track, 20 months of ownership and manipulating much on Me ED I found many loop holes that were effective W/O no side effects. Some of these defeat devices should have trigger something, On Most systems they do. I seen 150-200K miles truck with clean EGR and plenum when others Family owners had cake intakes.
I finger sticked My EGR valve and NOT 1 code, The only code I rarely received was P0245 during summer months it never has shown when temps are below 50F. I added 15% over injectors Stacked on Banks bullet NOT 1 code but the Active regen were occurring every 100 miles and the factory turbo just could not handle the extra fuel.
The OE tune was really dirty for city driving .... What the real give away was the mileage My ED was 24-30 HWY and Mixed 20-22 that's unbelievable Mileage when the other guy couldn't get 24 HWY and Mixed 16-20. Hmmm what devices are defeated with this type of driving and functioning on the other types of driving.
Andrew at SS has a 600HP twin turbo 3.0 with his stand alone tuning that's held up as far as I know, when many 3.0 puked the entire rotating mass, More QC issues, if this type of QC is practiced 3 years into production I'm sure there were running background programs that teams of software engineers were gag on.
NOx which occurs naturally is a big discussion in itself.... and the 0 standard IMO is just to far....
IMO chasing after 1 naturally occurring chemical in the name of green at the expanse of lower mileage with increase other contaminates and higher cost is questionable that for sure.
I finger sticked My EGR valve and NOT 1 code, The only code I rarely received was P0245 during summer months it never has shown when temps are below 50F. I added 15% over injectors Stacked on Banks bullet NOT 1 code but the Active regen were occurring every 100 miles and the factory turbo just could not handle the extra fuel.
The OE tune was really dirty for city driving .... What the real give away was the mileage My ED was 24-30 HWY and Mixed 20-22 that's unbelievable Mileage when the other guy couldn't get 24 HWY and Mixed 16-20. Hmmm what devices are defeated with this type of driving and functioning on the other types of driving.
Andrew at SS has a 600HP twin turbo 3.0 with his stand alone tuning that's held up as far as I know, when many 3.0 puked the entire rotating mass, More QC issues, if this type of QC is practiced 3 years into production I'm sure there were running background programs that teams of software engineers were gag on.
NOx which occurs naturally is a big discussion in itself.... and the 0 standard IMO is just to far....
IMO chasing after 1 naturally occurring chemical in the name of green at the expanse of lower mileage with increase other contaminates and higher cost is questionable that for sure.
dbr2
New Member
- Jan 2, 2016
- 22
- 10
- Truck Year
- 2016
We are seeking the same results, I do use a fuel additive and even Yes, an oil additive both from Arch Oil. I regularly get 21-22 mixed driving from my house to my office. It is a 10 mile drive one way and has a little 45 mph roads some 50 mph roads and some lights not too bad. My 75mph highway only yields about 24-25mpg, if I run 70 it will increase almost 2 mpg. So, my ecoboost never got that mileage in my mixed driving. I went from an ecoboost to the ecodiesel. In comparison my ford ecoboost was a racecar off the line to any speed compared to the ecodiesel. I have a slide in camper that weighs in about 2200 wet and I tow either my boat, 23' tandem trailer about 5500lbs or my aluminum trailer with a couple of Harley's about 2400lbs or my John Deere 3032E tractor on my aluminum trailer, the trailer is a 14' 5000lb braking axle single and carriers the tractor in about 3800lbs. So, I have pulled with both, the real difference in the two trucks and power plants is the ford has more HP same torque and is quicker, but the 1500 has much better fuel economy. When loaded with camper and pulling the boat it is quite a load for that size truck. It pulls without hesitating. The ford would get about 8.5-10 mpg on the highway running 65-70mph and the 1500 would get between 14-16 mpg at the 65-70mph. Some of our highways are 75mph, I am one of those guys that slows to 65-70, it is just a lot of wind on the camper not so much the load it is pulling.
I am looking forward to the engine braking in the GDE ECU and of course a little more torque never hurts. The torque increase should be welcomed, but from what I understand the rpm range is much broader, it is in earlier and longer, that should make those trips a little more drivable, even though I really do not have much concern now. Hopefully the power unit breaths better and last longer.
The other trouble I have is the 4 corner air bags, not the best for a slide in camper. I have installed some timbrens on the rear to stabilize the truck when loaded. Not perfect but works.
I looked at the Banks programmer as it is removable, I just did not see enough stuff other than the fuel rail pressure and altering the delivery of fuel to increase the HP. dumping more fuel at a higher pressure is not always the best solution. The ECU actually changes the fuel maps, pulse rates on fuel delivery and does raise fuel rail pressure slightly and increases the boost pressure a few psi. The engine actually runs slightly leaner and no EGR. I am looking forward to the install.