Engine Failure - Warranty Claim - DENIED

[Ram19]

Great news!! Nice to see that FCA is finally stepping up to do the right thing. Good Luck & let us know how things turn out.

 

[Jcarey]

Well I was able to get the following email sent to the District Manager that apparently is getting some amount of traction. I rolled in much of the advice that was given on this site and elsewhere, so thanks all again. My service manager said the District Manager was interested in the emails regarding the bearing failures and is going to talk to his manager.

We have started talking with other dealerships and lawyers so I am not dead in the water yet!

Hi Janell,

I have put together a summary of my case and am asking that you to please forward it on to the District Manager. When we spoke yesterday I was concerned that the district manager does not have an accurate understanding of how the truck has been used and so I am hoping this summary will help clarify any confusion that may exist and lead him to reconsider his recommendation to not cover my engine under warranty.

If you have the opportunity to speak with Scott again, I would ask you highlight the following items

• There is a known issue with bearing failures with ecodiesel engines and there is no evidence that my maintenance caused the failure.
• All oil changes were done within 500 miles of the oil change required message.
• The truck was maintained in a manner that I understood to be reasonable and in accordance with the owner’s manual. The dealership advertised the oil change interval as 10,000 miles when I purchased the truck. I have discussed oil change intervals with Rairdon service managers in the past, and I had been advised to follow the dash oil life indicator which I have done.

Also, if you have any comments/concerns/additions you would like to provide regarding the information below, that would be great.

Thanks,
Orion xxxxxx
206-819-xxxx

Vehicle Description:
2017 Ram 1500 Ecodiesel Laramie Crew Cab LB 4x4
VIN:xxxxxx
Odometer: 47,000 miles

Vehicle Usage:
The truck is primarily used as a commuter vehicle to travel daily from my home in Kirkland to my place of work (Boeing) in Tukwila. The daily commute is ~50miles total. On weekends, we frequently travel to camp and recreate outside which can involve many highway miles. The truck is generally driven in a manner to maximize fuel economy. Approximately once a month during the summer, a small fiberglass travel trailer (Dry weight 2,000lbs) is towed on the highway for camping. The truck is NOT used for heavy hauling, offroading, frequent city driving or short commutes or other severe condition use.

Vehicle Issue:
Suspected seized main bearing and thrown connector rod.

Sunday 11/3 at 11:30 the truck started making a sharp knocking noise while driving on the freeway at approximately 65mph. I was hauling a small dirtbike and driving a steady speed on a level surface. The knocking became quickly much worse and the truck began to lose power. I idled the truck to the shoulder immediately and shut off the engine. I was towed to Rairdon’s Kirkland and truck was started three times that I know of since. Once to shift the truck to neutral to load. Once to shift the truck to neutral to unload. Once to move the truck a short distance in the lot.

Vehicle/Service History:
The vehicle was purchased new in late 2017 and had all service maintenance done at Rairdon’s Kirkland. All oil changes were done within the maximum recommended interval of 10,000 miles with the exception of the second oil service done at an interval of 10,170 miles per the odometer. This truck is equipped with and an oil life indicator which alerts me when service is due. The only time that I had service light illuminate was for the second oil service when the service light illuminated at 10,000 miles. The truck was brought into the dealer for service within the 500 miles of the light illuminating as instructed per the owner’s manual. At the time of engine failure, the vehicle has just over 47,000 miles on the odometer.

Service records are attached (HS537930.pdf)

Dealer Response:
Rairdon’s Kirkland service manager Janell informed me that the engine needs to be replaced due to failed main bearings. Janelle initiated a Chrysler warranty approval for purchase of a new engine. Service records were provided to the Chrysler District Manager (Scott). Janell communicated verbally to me that Chrysler rejected the warranty claim citing improper maintenance as the cause of the engine failure. As of 11/7/2019 no mechanic inspection of the vehicle has been performed; the diagnoses of the engine problem and cause of failure appears to be entirely done without inspection and it is unclear what evidence they have the engine indeed needs to be replaced or what caused any failure.

I have had multiple interactions with Janell and another service manager (Marcello) in an effort to appeal the decision to deny the warranty. Janell has insisted that the dealer does not have any leverage with Chrysler and there is no additional recourse available. Janell also communicated that the District Manager suspected the truck was “used as a work truck” and that the oil life indicator likely came on well before 10k miles – this is not true as described earlier.

Known Engine Problems of Ecodiesel:
High failure rates of main bearings in the ecodiesel are a known issue within Chrysler. This has been documented with emails between Chrysler(FCA) and EPA that were made public in the ecodiesel emmissions settlement case 17-MD-2777-EMC. See attachments and the following links.

https://jalopnik.com/baffled-by-dieselgate-emails-reveal-fiat-chrysler-stru-1822737746
https://www.cand.uscourts.gov/emc/chryslermdl

There are also numerous anecdotal accounts available on the internet. It is worth noting that it appears that Chrysler honored the warranty and provided replacement engines for the vast majority of accounts. There are examples the warranty was honored with similar service history as I have.

.

I just had a complete engine failure in my 2018 eco diesel last week. It is at the dealership. They sent paperwork out to see if they were going to rebuild it or put a new engine in. Haven’t heard if it was going to be covered yet. 2018 50k miles. Never towed anything.

 

[Ecopete]

For all the folks that have a failure and then want to be heard that they drove it very gently and never towed anything, that may be partly the issue! Diesels need to get up to operating temp in a timely manner and if you never plan on working it, for goodness sakes get a 3.6L gas!

 

[Chris Stultz]

I had an issue with the def tank on mine. I was over the warranty and they weren't going to honor it. I called and spoke directly to Chrysler. I may have sent a strongly worded email too. They ended up covering it.

 

[Donharris]

I have a 2019 that failed, started knocking going down highway, pulled over immediately and towed to dealership, I was denied warranty. They said I used oil not approved by them, used Castrol Edge 5w-40 full synthetic...

 

[TC Diesel]

Black bottle or gold bottle? Because Black bottle is not, and Gold bottle is, I hope you have receipts to prove the lube used.

That being said it was NOT the Lube that caused the failure, What's the excuse for the 10,000+ 3.0s that used the correct cert?

 

[BWHuss]

What the hell did i just get into? I just bought a 2015 3L ecodiesel, did i make a mistake?

 

[Brady]

What the hell did i just get into? I just bought a 2015 3L ecodiesel, did i make a mistake?

You only made a mistake if you are the type to spend your time worrying about what may happen. Fact of the matter is, 95 out of 100 run down the road just fine. Many are getting high mileage on them without a problem. Stick around and read up on some of the things you can do to improve your chances of trouble free operation. Good luck.

 

[Donharris]

Black bottle or gold bottle? Because Black bottle is not, and Gold bottle is, I hope you have receipts to prove the lube used.

That being said it was NOT the Lube that caused the failure, What's the excuse for the 10,000+ 3.0s that used the correct cert?

I used the one in the black Jug...

 

[Mesatoneman]

Getting ready for first oil change sinse purchasing truck. What oil do you suggest using besides amsoil? Ive used rotella in my trucks, backhoe and farm tractor for years. What’s wrong with it?

 

[TC Diesel]

Mesatone , I was a big supporter of T-6 Rotella, Until the additive package change, I contacted Shell they Claim Blackstone analysis is incorrect, Blackstone Labs have checked difference Lubes before T-6 and after and the process detected, Both Moly, Mag, and CAL at correct levels, Shell Claims Moly, and Mag are considerably higher than Blackstone Reports. The removal of Moly, Mag with the doubling of CAL has me concerned, Although the wear levels have not changed W/O Moly, Mag.

At this point Don/Mesatone OA are more important then Brand. Just Make sure its DSL Cert. T-6 is what I'm still using in all My DSL's, Until My Investigation is over and a reason to Change.

Don Harris, unfortunately the Black Bottle Does NOT meet FCA spec for 3.0 Lube. That being said its Castrol good lube and had NO connection to the rotating mass failure, The Heck with the naysayers, Castrol is used in Millions of Vehicles around the the world that don't puke their gut's out. Your 3.0 death began in Cento Italy (QC) and its clock started to tick every second it was running until It puked.

 

[Chris Stultz]

I brought mine to the dealer the first 4 years. It really wasn't much more expensive and I wanted to keep a good "record". When I booked my oil change last time, it was almost double what I had paid before, so I started doing it myself. I'm at the point now where it doesn't matter if I do it or they do it. I did end up developing a relationship with the dealer over the first few years that they covered a few things under warranty. I just had to get a new intake manifold gasket and it was covered.

 

[1shadowsabre]

I used the one in the black Jug...

Sounds like you might have to fight a little to get covered.

 

[CHIV]

Again the failure rate is not from shit bearings or whatever your theory is. The EGR valve is dumping contaminated particles directly into your motor and even after 500 miles there's way too many particles that are smaller than 20 microns that will ruin your bearings. The main filter only traps 20 -30 microns of particles. You need a bypass filter to remove all particles bigger than one micron. This will eliminate any bearing wear off the contaminants that are dumped into this motor. The issue is not the motor again it's the EDR valve contaminating the bearings. Think about this how could a Italian high-end diesel motor company put the wrong bearings in this motor they're not stupid. But bringing that motor over to the US in adding the US emissions systems on is the issue.

I'm sure the particles don't help, but I know a guy who had a 2017 ED fail at just over 30k miles, and the oil was changed 8k miles earlier at the same time a GDE tune was installed. So at that point, the EGR was deactivated and no such particles were going into the motor. Also, there were way fewer regens than without the tune, so oil dilution from the regen should have been greatly reduced as well.

Also, I saw someone mention that an oil analysis after engine failure is a waste of time because the oil is "contaminated". I can't agree. Sure, there presumably will be excess particulate matter (i.e., metal from the failed engine!), but filter that out and viscosity and TBN values can be tested just fine. Oil that comes back within spec for both those values would show that either a) the bearings failed for a reason that is not related to the oil, or b) that the engine was previously run with bad oil which caused damage without failure at that point, and the engine subsequently failed after an oil change (which is why the oil would test fine).

I have a 2017 ED, and I get a Blackstone test at EVERY oil change. Let's see them try to deny warranty coverage when you show that the oil you threw away was still within spec...

EDIT: I'm just going to add that 1) Cummins engines in Rams also have EGR and they don't have bypass filters, and 2) *some* EDs run for hundreds of thousands of miles even without a tune to shut down EGR.

Also, it's true, the larger particles will accelerate wear. But not to the degree the bearings fail in only 30-50k miles. That is *really* low for a (normal) diesel.

All things considered, the EGR particulate theory seems to be a red herring (i.e., is not consistent with the evidence).

So yeah, it really does seem to be a design flaw in the motor (e.g., crankshaft dynamics that require the lubrication system and tolerances to be *just* right). If the problem were incorrect metallurgy of the bearings, that would be detected in testing after failure, the source of the bearings determined, and the problem corrected or that source eliminated.

 

[Donharris]

Sounds like you might have to fight a little to get covered.

Finally got the diagnostics today, says metal in oil possibly inner sleeve or bearing...that took 4 weeks to get copy. says used wrong oil, I did call Chrysler Canada, after being on hold for a bit while they called shop, they came back and said I was denied because I didn't use their techs to do oil change. that was a week and a half ago. Warranty wasn't denied until dealer I bought from said they will get truck and do warranty work because i was planning on upgrading.
Spoke to Chrysler again today, they said someone put restriction on my warranty, but they don't know who and why..it seems the dealer my truck was towed to put the restriction. Apparently so no one else can do the work. My truck finally being towed to dealer where i bought from, but upgrade is now out of the question because of being denied warranty, can't get truck fixed.. A month now, My dealership still trying to address the warranty issue.

 

[Donharris]

Finally got the diagnostics today, says metal in oil possibly inner sleeve or bearing...that took 4 weeks to get copy. says used wrong oil, I did call Chrysler Canada, after being on hold for a bit while they called shop, they came back and said I was denied because I didn't use their techs to do oil change. that was a week and a half ago. Warranty wasn't denied until dealer I bought from said they will get truck and do warranty work because i was planning on upgrading.
Spoke to Chrysler again today, they said someone put restriction on my warranty, but they don't know who and why..it seems the dealer my truck was towed to put the restriction. Apparently so no one else can do the work. My truck finally being towed to dealer where i bought from, but upgrade is now out of the question because of being denied warranty, can't get truck fixed.. A month now, My dealership still trying to address the warranty issue.

Yesterday shop said Chrysler finally gonna cover the engine, but want me to signing a letter acknowledging the need to change oil..and they want the engine so they can fully disassembled and inspect it.
I have no problem signing letter
Truck has less than 40,000 km had 3 oil changed and just came due for next when engine went.
Have to thank the dealer shop for fighting for me. Took just over a month to get that decision, today I find out how long for engine to come in.

 

[Chris Stultz]

There have been a lot of problems with these. Mine has 165k miles. It's had a few issues. I think I'm going to be the market for a new truck soon. I'm staying away from the ecodiesel.

 

[TC Diesel]

ALRIGHT way to go DonHarris.....although incorrect lube spec according to Fiat, the problem is VM Cento Italy..QC.

 

[Donharris]

ALRIGHT way to go DonHarris.....although incorrect lube spec according to Fiat, the problem is VM Cento Italy..QC.

Know that now, didn’t realize that when the oil is advertised as a recommended oil for Ram trucks (the 6.7), used a recommended weigh (5w40 full synthetic), and the oil jug says for light Diesel engines.
my first oil change.I used rotella 6
2nd oil change in shop
Third at home( was still waiting for other warranty part to come in when oil change was due,

 

[Donharris]

Know that now, didn’t realize that when the oil is advertised as a recommended oil for Ram trucks (the 6.7), used a recommended weigh (5w40 full synthetic), and the oil jug says for light Diesel engines.
my first oil change.I used rotella 6
2nd oil change in shop
Third at home( was still waiting for other warranty part to come in when oil change was due,

How things change...now Chrysler want my motor sent to Windsor Ontario so they can inspect to confirm there was no neglect...