EPA holding 2017 Diesels hostage

[bobcat67]

If they discontinue use of this motor, your best option is going to be taking whatever buy back plan they come up with, that being said they're probably really going to push the hemi or cummins to their ecodiesel customers, try to keep people in FCA products. This is just my opinion however and should be taken as just that, an opinion. Parts are going to become near impossible to find if they do away with it and there won't be any sense in trying to keep the pickup because they will be virtually worthless

 

[TC Diesel]

I'll get back on This, GTO.

 

[justlucky]

Fiat Chrysler says diesel emissions probes are widening


Fiat Chrysler has disclosed that additional federal and state agencies are now investigating its alleged diesel emissions violations.


Check out this story on USATODAY.com: http://usat.ly/2my8jXJ

 

[BoostN]

It seems this isn't going away huh?

 

[GearHead]

TC Diesel,
You may be right, it is under extreme scrutiny. And Now Cummings is under fire.

http://fcauthority.com/2016/12/fiat-chrysler-cummins-named-in-another-class-action-diesel-lawsuit/
http://www.detroitnews.com/story/business/autos/chrysler/2016/12/28/fca-diesel-lawsuit/95920250/

Two short articles that supports your thoughts on the 3.0L being under fire. But, to include Cummings, I guess deep pockets? I really want to see where the Cummings allegations go, if they stick and move forward, I suspect you may see Duramax and Powerstroke under the same scrutiny. As they all use the same type of emission control and procedures on how they code software to run the engine cycles and turning on and off components for regen or possible unsafe temperature levels. Yes, they all have different parameters, but they all have the same type of software producing the same type of safety timing cycles. Not defeating the emissions systems but cycling through as aloud by the Reg's.

I cannot support these articles as I cannot validate the claims as reported. There is some validity, you really have to find the government papers and actions taken to see what really is being submitted. So, my disclaimer, it is reported news only.

This aught to be an interesting year for the diesels.

They use the same systems and procedures as that is mandated by EPA, big difference is they use a proprietary ECM, FCA in both the Cummins and ED use a BOSCH ECM which is the same ECM that VW used. EPA, by their own statements, is "investigating any and all users of the this ECM". So EPA is going after any and all users of the BOSCH ECM, yes Audi is under scrutiny.
I have read the EPA Notice of Violation and as a Hazardous Materials worker and a mechanic and machinist I can state that seven of the eight violations are Administrative in nature and are all necessary for engine protection under adverse conditions and are allowed under present regulations. The Notice of Violation also referenced testing that occurred in September of 2014 not 2016. The #1 violation has already been addressed by FCA.
What has changed in the last eight years is that the EPA has now mandated the way industry meets a standard, where in the past EPA set the standard and allowed industry to figure out how to meet it.
I agree the ED is under a lot of pressure, the reason for EPA issuing the NOV when they did is that once published it goes to the front for adjudication and must be handled as is. Thus limiting options for resolution.
Do I hold FCA partially responsible? Yes. Do I hold a over Zealous EPA responsible? Yes. Does the GDE reprogram violate warranty? My opinion yes. Does GDE reprogram violate Fed Reg? My opinion yes.Will I get a GDE reprogram when out of warranty? Probably. My 95 Chevy has a modified exhaust. It violates Fed Reg! But it runs cleaner than the regulations allow. So whats the point?
I for one will ride this one out.

 

[TC Diesel]

What testing other then reading Have you performed and what were the results...Simply put if the EPA needs a video I will provide it.. Devices on the truck are conditional... measured at the tail pipe is what counts, Why do you think it was so easy for Green Death Environment to manipulate? Claiming your tunes are ECO friendly is More fake news, it seems again,,,, Americans are Buying lies, thats why its so popular.. Americans can throw all the stones they can find at the EPA, They trusted these CORPs to comply and all they did was take advantage of the system and the kindness allowed.... If You want to sell Products that violate State/Fed laws how about doing it with different titles other than Eco & Green.

 

[adaman7]

Crazy, they raided Audi yesterday. Felt like deja vu when I heard it on the radio.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G891A using Tapatalk

 

[NC-RAM]

so reading and listening to the chatter back and forth, bottom line is what if anything is going to happen?
I ready don't think you will be getting a new truck out of this deal, VW did not buy everyone a new car. The little guy ( us ) we are going to be stuck with this truck, if you keep it. Dealers will reprogram the existing motors if that. They will end this line of motors and more on.
I think the best thing you can do is go with GDE, get a great turn for the truck and drive on. FCA is going to pay a fine and life moves on.
or trade and get nothing for it. The little guy losses all the time.

 

[John]

What testing other then reading Have you performed and what were the results...Simply put if the EPA needs a video I will provide it.. Devices on the truck are conditional... measured at the tail pipe is what counts, Why do you think it was so easy for Green Death Environment to manipulate? Claiming your tunes are ECO friendly is More fake news, it seems again,,,, Americans are Buying lies, thats why its so popular.. Americans can throw all the stones they can find at the EPA, They trusted these CORPs to comply and all they did was take advantage of the system and the kindness allowed.... If You want to sell Products that violate State/Fed laws how about doing it with different titles other than Eco & Green.

I recently added the GDE tune and these guys are very sophisticated and are pioneers in the industry. If you don't believe me, do a little research on the owners and you will be impressed. I doubt any of this tuning is easy. I'm curious what you have against GDE. Is it jealousy?

 

[TC Diesel]

I recently added the GDE tune and these guys are very sophisticated and are pioneers in the industry. If you don't believe me, do a little research on the owners and you will be impressed. I doubt any of this tuning is easy. I'm curious what you have against GDE. Is it jealousy?

If there stuff was that good FCA would have offered them millions for it.... FCA have lost over 1 Billion in sales in 2017 on the ED at 40K per Year at $40K Cost. It easy to tune when the mapping already exist. Seem like buying Fake Tunes. Green death environment can fool the unknowing that's about it. Jealous NA , I'm just waiting for the EPA and the local Sherriff to show up at their Door...Which will eventually happen they tune other Power plants (Besides ED). What makes you think that if the EPA raided Edge ,H&S and others with fines over $500.000+ that GDE would be exempt, only time separates the outcome.

 

[BoostN]

If there stuff was that good FCA would have offered them millions for it.... FCA have lost over 1 Billion in sales in 2017 on the ED at 40K per Year at $40K Cost. It easy to tune when the mapping already exist. Seem like buying Fake Tunes. Green death environment can fool the unknowing that's about it. Jealous NA , I'm just waiting for the EPA and the local Sherriff to show up at their Door...Which will eventually happen they tune other Power plants (Besides ED). What makes you think that if the EPA raided Edge ,H&S and others with fines over $500.000+ that GDE would be exempt, only time separates the outcome.

Here's the deal. Aftermarket tuning companies do not have to abide by the same rules that the manufactures do. This is no different then all of the other tuning companies out there. PPEI, Spartan, EFILive, etc doesn't have to tune within the restrictions as outlined by the government. So, Tuner X at Company Y has it quite easy compared to a major auto manufacture like FCA, GM, Ford, etc.

..and it's not fake tuning. Until you pull the .bin file out of a "GDE Tuned" ecm and pull that same file from a "Stock ECM" and can compare, then you can't make that claim. Fake tuning is the modules you see on ebay for $29.99 that do nothing but cross two wires and gives a person the feeling they are "tuned".

Edge and H&S were the biggest players when that happen. Now, marketing has changed for every tuning company out there.. and tuning companies don't really "poke the bear" per say.. I do think any tuning company should keep an eye on out the front door, as you never know who might walk in.

 

[TC Diesel]

No... YOU must comply to the Law.... Period... Your tune Must Be certified to sell on Road use, The only exception is race... Period.. OE or aftermarket. You had better check the laws on why EFILive VS GDE. GDE does NOT own the device being modified, the owner does NOT own the device that's doing modifications...etc. Not only is GDE deceiving owners into thinking that their tune are green ,they are completely business bankrupt I have never seen any GDE label on any module after they molested it, Legally you need to remove that certification...No they want to make it look like its OEM. This is fooling the Maker on warranty repairs and its a gross violation on certification ... Go fine any Part, That Pumps, Rails ,Injectors, etc , Turbos TC modified form OE that does NOT have the OE maker name removed and TC Diesel SNs and label. We carry the warranty after the piece is modified , I don't expect to fool the Maker on warranty repairs. We don't F makers over for profit , and violates laws in the process. EFILive is light years ahead of anything Green death has created.

These attitudes or modding and keeping your warranty will get you flamed at almost all sites, justifiably so...

YOU will read this over and over again YOU ARE YOUR WARRANTY STATION.

256 encryption software is 2-3 years out for Road Modules, when that happens it will take years to break.

 

[TC Diesel]

The EPA or any law enforcement agency is welcome at our Door.... Any we don't F companies over and do it in the name green. They are legal options available , all the companies NOT putting any effort into following them are just tightening the noose on themselves and everyone else.

 

[John]

So you don't like GDE or am I reading this wrong?

 

[Brady]

Good exchange of philosophies here guys. It's nice to see this can be done without elementary school name calling and such.

Honestly, TC's viewpoint is spot on, albeit extreme. I don't believe GDE tuning is causing failures tho, so it's not like those tuned are taking blown motors into FCA asking for warranty repairs at an astronomical rate. Let's face it, the motors that go do so whether tuned or not.

If you do tune, and lose an engine, you'll either be upfront and honest about your ECM reprogramming or keep your mouth shut and see if it slides by. Just depends on how you sleep at night. Me, I sleep just fine... [emoji6]

/thread

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G891A using Tapatalk

 

[TC Diesel]

They call Me out at the 1500diesel.com , I provider evidence on the subject that they were 100% incorrect even the diagrams they provided were NOT form 2013+ 3.0. I provide the correct diagrams and current operations.... If you going to call someone OUT I suggest providing current info and correct info. they were so arrogant not allowing change that that had to get the Mods involved, I stood My own ground , they had to bring in additional keystroked help.. just another sign of how weak they are.

I don't like any company that uses fake info and misleading info for Profit.

John I take it its acceptable to you to defraud companies by disguising your molesting the manufacture products.

If GDE had any balls they would remove the makers Part #s and label Name of the products they Molest.

Example if some want TC to mod Injectors We remove the Makers name in all cases, in most case we remove the makers Part #, In all cases it relabeled and our S/N #. We tell everyone if warranty is vital to you wait until its expired. WTH the Mods at 1500Diesel.com were welcoming New Members with New EDs wit single digit miles to get GDE tunes... What.. its a clear violation of warranty.

_____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
Maybe I can clear this UP, GM All makers Must meet the certification REQUIRED by Federal Law. The instant YOU delete ON/OFF road use (The only exception to this law is Race or off road competition) GM or your Dealer cannot (legally) even repair the Vehicle if its has State Plates.
Enforcement is the issue, Many times action is NOT taken when the warranty is voided, This is the parties involved discretion, MAKE NO mistake YOUR warranty is voided the instant you make defeat or delete steps to any component thats needed to meet the certification.
Enforcement is the major part of any Law, if No enforcement then its a statement, if the parties involved decided to enforce the law it is now binding and absolute.

You warranty cannot be Voided on all component's that have NO bridge or connection, Example NEW radio cannot void suspension components, but it sure can void ALL electronic communications. Enforcement is the key Part of any law or warranty. When disagreement's arise they are generally decided By arbitration or Judge.

I May come off as harsh, but when I see acts that rob My fellow man ()r companies) on ground that need to be shaken I do so.

 

[TC Diesel]

I have Never seen any evidence on the 3.0 that GDE tune Will / Or cause component failure. Nothing.

 

[John]

Now I'm convinced you don't like GDE. I will not stoop to judging others as you do.

 

[TC Diesel]

e

Now I'm convinced you don't like GDE. I will not stoop to judging others as you do.

So your stand is to allow wrong doing (law breaking) and deception on the grounds of Profit? So you condemn Me on the grounds of Judging. If you are ever robbed, cheated on or just beat up.. Don't Judge the criminal acts ..You invited things like these to happen to you. I will NOT fell compassion or waste 1 mill second on your condition.

You remind Me of a Anoka County Prosecutor who refuse to charge a person that wrote a check for the repairs done to his home By My construction company in 2004 $8800.00. I went to the court House and found Him (Prosecutor) and demanded He file the action ,He said he would Not unless He (Home owner had a history of writing bad checks to contractors or admits to the crime) I said OK the next time I see someone assaulting YOU and punching you in the face I will watch... How many punches are you going to let the assailant hit you before you Prosecute? He file the charges that day and won. I also sold My lien rights to the 2nd mortgage Holder and recover My $8800.00

 

[R Stanley]

Right is right and wrong is wrong, that is what TC is saying I believe and he is showing (telling) what he has to prove it. Some people like GDE some people do not like GDE, I do not see that being relevant here, could be wrong, but for me I do my homework and I know what ever I do to my truck, it is my responsibility at the end of the day if something goes wrong with what I put on. Good conversation,